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I thought modern cars all had built-in immobilisers and chips in the keys? A few years back I was reading reports saying that car theft had dropped substantial

I thought modern cars all had built-in immobilisers and chips in the keys? A few years back I was reading reports saying that car theft had dropped substantially as it was nigh-impossible to move a car without the key, to the point thieves were even resorting to breaking into homes to get the car keys.

bitexploder 3y ago
Key fob cloning attacks on many nicer cars, like say Ford Raptor. Cheaper cars with easy to physically defeat systems.
nervousvarun 3y ago
NSIS..but if you are, all of that tech is circumvented if the key is cloned...which is increasingly easy to do (TFA mentions this when it talks about storing keys in a Faraday cage): https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/security-experts-police-offer-advice-on-how-to-prevent-keyless-car-thefts/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/security-experts-police...
- LanceH 3y ago
  And yet it costs $400 to replace your key at Toyota. These guys should not be stealing cars, they should be selling replacement keys if it's that easy.
- gambiting 3y ago
  Well it got very easy to do for a while with the early keyless tech, then it got very hard or impossible again recently with the advent of certain tech. In particular the "relay" attacks are now impossible with the advent of UWB tech in keys as Time of Flight response can be measured accurately enough that a relay won't work. Some of it got better with some really brain dead improvement to security - like just making the keys sleep and not respond to commands if they haven't been moved for more than 10 seconds, that alone eliminated the entire model of stealing cars from people's driveways by just using a relay with a key inside the house. Unfortunately thieves always seem to be a step ahead and figure out things like location of CAN buses to connect diagnostic equipment and clone keys that way, that's why you sometimes hear about cars with ripped out headlamps because there is a CAN bus connector behind them.
bityard 3y ago
Different car manufacturers have different levels of security. Plus, thieves these days are not (mostly) breaking the security of the keys, they are getting control of the CAN bus. Meanwhile, I can't get a spare key fob for my 11 year-old Prius without paying the dealership $524.66.

bitexploder 3y ago

Key fob cloning attacks on many nicer cars, like say Ford Raptor. Cheaper cars with easy to physically defeat systems.

nervousvarun 3y ago

NSIS..but if you are, all of that tech is circumvented if the key is cloned...which is increasingly easy to do (TFA mentions this when it talks about storing keys in a Faraday cage): https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/security-experts-police-offer-advice-on-how-to-prevent-keyless-car-thefts/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/security-experts-police...

LanceH 3y ago
And yet it costs $400 to replace your key at Toyota. These guys should not be stealing cars, they should be selling replacement keys if it's that easy.
gambiting 3y ago
Well it got very easy to do for a while with the early keyless tech, then it got very hard or impossible again recently with the advent of certain tech. In particular the "relay" attacks are now impossible with the advent of UWB tech in keys as Time of Flight response can be measured accurately enough that a relay won't work. Some of it got better with some really brain dead improvement to security - like just making the keys sleep and not respond to commands if they haven't been moved for more than 10 seconds, that alone eliminated the entire model of stealing cars from people's driveways by just using a relay with a key inside the house. Unfortunately thieves always seem to be a step ahead and figure out things like location of CAN buses to connect diagnostic equipment and clone keys that way, that's why you sometimes hear about cars with ripped out headlamps because there is a CAN bus connector behind them.

bityard 3y ago

Different car manufacturers have different levels of security. Plus, thieves these days are not (mostly) breaking the security of the keys, they are getting control of the CAN bus. Meanwhile, I can't get a spare key fob for my 11 year-old Prius without paying the dealership $524.66.