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Fossil fuel is a cheat code because you neither have to pay to create it nor pay for the consequences of using it, nature is dealing with both of these. Everyth

Fossil fuel is a cheat code because you neither have to pay to create it nor pay for the consequences of using it, nature is dealing with both of these. Everything you use from roads to shampoo, toilet paper, clothes, computers, buildings, bicycles, it's all either enabled by fossil or a fossil fuel derivate At planet scale nothing will ever get better than: dig hole, pump oil, burn oil

landgenoot 3y ago
> At planet scale nothing will ever get better than: dig hole, pump oil, burn oil Until the alternatives are cheaper. I would recommend you to read: Not the End of the World, Hannah Ritchie
- lm28469 3y ago
  > Until the alternatives are cheaper. To get cheaper they'd have to exist in the first place
  - hef19898 3y ago
    They do and they are? As far as electricity is concerned, that is.
    - lm28469 3y ago
      I think you underestimate how widespread petroleum derivates are outside of energy. Construction materials, roads, tires, plastics, cosmetics, cleaning products, paints, inks, dyes, adhesives, sealants, lubricants, clothes, waterproof fabrics, batteries, fertilisers, medicine, tooth paste, shampoos, &c. It's _the_ building block of modern life, unless you're in nature you can bet everything you lay your eyes on is at least partially made of petroleum or its derivates
      - hef19898 3y ago
        I explicitly mentioned electricity, didn't I? And getting rid of burning fossil fuels is a win I'll take every day of the week. Don't let the perfect be the enmy of the good and all that.
      - AstralStorm 3y ago
        Eh. We can usually use modern chemistry to instead start from natural oils or fatty acids instead of dinosaur juice for most of it. If we cannot outright replace the problematic substance. Some energy input may be required. ( But likely on par with current diesel/gas processing.)
      - landgenoot 3y ago
        I think you overestimate it. where do global greenhouse gas emissions come from? - Energy (electricity, heat and transport): 73.2% - Chemicals & petrochemicals: 2.2% https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector
NikkiA 3y ago
Getting it out of the ground is expensive in both dollar terms and the cost to lives.
- apexalpha 3y ago
  Depends on where you are Saudi Arabia pumps it for $4 a barrel... Compared to some fracking happening at around ~$35 to $40 a barrel.
- lm28469 3y ago
  It's getting expensive but it used to be extremely cheap, in the middle east or even in the US you had natural oil springs where petroleum literally flowed out of the ground, same for coal before that, if we somehow fuck it up and go back 200 years in the past tech wise there will never be a new industrial revolution Cost to lives is free here, same as cost for the future or cost to the environment. If we had to pay for these we'd be in deficit. The simple issue of old oil fields leaking methane would already render most of their operators bankrupt if they had to fix the problem

landgenoot 3y ago

> At planet scale nothing will ever get better than: dig hole, pump oil, burn oil Until the alternatives are cheaper. I would recommend you to read: Not the End of the World, Hannah Ritchie

lm28469 3y ago
> Until the alternatives are cheaper. To get cheaper they'd have to exist in the first place
- hef19898 3y ago
  They do and they are? As far as electricity is concerned, that is.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    I think you underestimate how widespread petroleum derivates are outside of energy. Construction materials, roads, tires, plastics, cosmetics, cleaning products, paints, inks, dyes, adhesives, sealants, lubricants, clothes, waterproof fabrics, batteries, fertilisers, medicine, tooth paste, shampoos, &c. It's _the_ building block of modern life, unless you're in nature you can bet everything you lay your eyes on is at least partially made of petroleum or its derivates
    - hef19898 3y ago
      I explicitly mentioned electricity, didn't I? And getting rid of burning fossil fuels is a win I'll take every day of the week. Don't let the perfect be the enmy of the good and all that.
    - AstralStorm 3y ago
      Eh. We can usually use modern chemistry to instead start from natural oils or fatty acids instead of dinosaur juice for most of it. If we cannot outright replace the problematic substance. Some energy input may be required. ( But likely on par with current diesel/gas processing.)
    - landgenoot 3y ago
      I think you overestimate it. where do global greenhouse gas emissions come from? - Energy (electricity, heat and transport): 73.2% - Chemicals & petrochemicals: 2.2% https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector

NikkiA 3y ago

Getting it out of the ground is expensive in both dollar terms and the cost to lives.

apexalpha 3y ago
Depends on where you are Saudi Arabia pumps it for $4 a barrel... Compared to some fracking happening at around ~$35 to $40 a barrel.
lm28469 3y ago
It's getting expensive but it used to be extremely cheap, in the middle east or even in the US you had natural oil springs where petroleum literally flowed out of the ground, same for coal before that, if we somehow fuck it up and go back 200 years in the past tech wise there will never be a new industrial revolution Cost to lives is free here, same as cost for the future or cost to the environment. If we had to pay for these we'd be in deficit. The simple issue of old oil fields leaking methane would already render most of their operators bankrupt if they had to fix the problem