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They aren’t the best in the first place. Goretex, most famous brand, isn’t that great at all. It will loose its water repellent power very quick. The membrane w

They aren’t the best in the first place. Goretex, most famous brand, isn’t that great at all. It will loose its water repellent power very quick. The membrane will die within 2-6 years. You will have to reapply PFA constantly. On the other side wax is used since decades and it works and you can just reapply it by rubbing it into the cloth and ironing.

SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
Might be true for jackets, but my anecdata hiking with friends in the Scandinavian mountains where it rains constantly and there are lots of rivers to ford is that wax is not good enough for boots. Time and time again the waxers hit leaks in my groups, and the GoreTexers stay bone dry. GoreTex of course isn’t a perfect material for boots. I think the main downside I see with the GoreTex is that it’s stiffer, harder to break in, and subsequently produces more blisters. That is fine for me though. I can control how many blister pads I apply and when, and ultimately whether the blister comes. I can’t control water ingress when fording a stream. For jackets, rather than invest in super pricey thousand dollar jackets, I usually bring two sets of Frogg Toggs and don’t expect them to survive the trek. It feels like the pick two for jackets is “cheap”, “light”, and “durable”. Maybe add “breathable” in there as well. Frogg Toggs definitely checks all the boxes except for durable, they will disintegrate if you simply fart the wrong ways. For an intermediate adventurer like myself who only treks once or twice a year for not longer than 10 days at a time that is totally fine
- johnnykree 3y ago
  Yes wax has its downsides, too. You have to constantly reapply it because it will just wear off. Leather boots won't soak up the wax, it is just on the surface and the more you go and use it, the more you have to reapply it. This is why I prefer leather grease for shoes. It will keep the leather smooth and water repellant, and this will be as good as Goretex. The only downside: When they are wet, they will stay wet for days. Goretex shoes dry within a night. So if I would hike for days and I expect constant rain or muddy terrain I would prefer membrane shoes, too.
f1refly 3y ago
> The membrane will die within 2-6 years. I still wear a goretex rain jacket and rain pants from the 90s, they work terrific. The membranes are fine. > You will have to reapply PFA constantly. Since pfa has been banned for non-commercial use (I think?) I currently use nikwax, which is a fluoride-free water repellant. > On the other side wax is used since decades and it works and you can just reapply it by rubbing it into the cloth and ironing. Wax is not breathable and will make you drown in your own sweat after a few hours of spending time in it.
- johnnykree 3y ago
  > I currently use nikwax. Yes, Nikwax is much better for the environment, it is some kind of mineral wax, right? > Wax is not breathable and will make you drown in your own sweat after a few hours of spending time in it. Thats the thing, a membrane is just breathable under the right conditions. In heavy rain the membranes will be covered with water and can't breathe. If it is warmer outside of the jacket than inside of it, it won't breathe at all. And even if conditions are perfect, the breathability of membranes are just a marketing gag because hot wet air needs a lot of pressure to get outside of your jacket / boots / with membrane. There are tests about it all over youtube that debunk the breathability of membranes like Goretex. > I still wear a goretex rain jacket and rain pants from the 90s, they work terrific. The membranes are still fine. I don't know about your jacket but stuff was made more sturdy back in the 90s. I'm just relying on my experience and stuff I've read by others. It depends on how often you use your stuff.
lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
Here's a fun video analyzing the effectiveness of Goretex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGEzJJYiROk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGEzJJYiROk
davidbanham 3y ago
My jacket is coming up on 13 years old now. Every one of those it’s been worn 2-4 weeks on snow, plus year round on rainy Sydney hikes, dog walks and kids soccer games. It’s just fine.

SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago

Might be true for jackets, but my anecdata hiking with friends in the Scandinavian mountains where it rains constantly and there are lots of rivers to ford is that wax is not good enough for boots. Time and time again the waxers hit leaks in my groups, and the GoreTexers stay bone dry. GoreTex of course isn’t a perfect material for boots. I think the main downside I see with the GoreTex is that it’s stiffer, harder to break in, and subsequently produces more blisters. That is fine for me though. I can control how many blister pads I apply and when, and ultimately whether the blister comes. I can’t control water ingress when fording a stream. For jackets, rather than invest in super pricey thousand dollar jackets, I usually bring two sets of Frogg Toggs and don’t expect them to survive the trek. It feels like the pick two for jackets is “cheap”, “light”, and “durable”. Maybe add “breathable” in there as well. Frogg Toggs definitely checks all the boxes except for durable, they will disintegrate if you simply fart the wrong ways. For an intermediate adventurer like myself who only treks once or twice a year for not longer than 10 days at a time that is totally fine

johnnykree 3y ago
Yes wax has its downsides, too. You have to constantly reapply it because it will just wear off. Leather boots won't soak up the wax, it is just on the surface and the more you go and use it, the more you have to reapply it. This is why I prefer leather grease for shoes. It will keep the leather smooth and water repellant, and this will be as good as Goretex. The only downside: When they are wet, they will stay wet for days. Goretex shoes dry within a night. So if I would hike for days and I expect constant rain or muddy terrain I would prefer membrane shoes, too.

f1refly 3y ago

> The membrane will die within 2-6 years. I still wear a goretex rain jacket and rain pants from the 90s, they work terrific. The membranes are fine. > You will have to reapply PFA constantly. Since pfa has been banned for non-commercial use (I think?) I currently use nikwax, which is a fluoride-free water repellant. > On the other side wax is used since decades and it works and you can just reapply it by rubbing it into the cloth and ironing. Wax is not breathable and will make you drown in your own sweat after a few hours of spending time in it.

johnnykree 3y ago
> I currently use nikwax. Yes, Nikwax is much better for the environment, it is some kind of mineral wax, right? > Wax is not breathable and will make you drown in your own sweat after a few hours of spending time in it. Thats the thing, a membrane is just breathable under the right conditions. In heavy rain the membranes will be covered with water and can't breathe. If it is warmer outside of the jacket than inside of it, it won't breathe at all. And even if conditions are perfect, the breathability of membranes are just a marketing gag because hot wet air needs a lot of pressure to get outside of your jacket / boots / with membrane. There are tests about it all over youtube that debunk the breathability of membranes like Goretex. > I still wear a goretex rain jacket and rain pants from the 90s, they work terrific. The membranes are still fine. I don't know about your jacket but stuff was made more sturdy back in the 90s. I'm just relying on my experience and stuff I've read by others. It depends on how often you use your stuff.

lylejantzi3rd 3y ago

Here's a fun video analyzing the effectiveness of Goretex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGEzJJYiROk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGEzJJYiROk

davidbanham 3y ago

My jacket is coming up on 13 years old now. Every one of those it’s been worn 2-4 weeks on snow, plus year round on rainy Sydney hikes, dog walks and kids soccer games. It’s just fine.