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Can this be used for fail-safe navigation of consumer-grade drones? I.e., to return to "home" safely?

by neodypsis 3y ago

the__alchemist 3y ago
Not required; assume you are not being jammed in those cases.
- neodypsis 3y ago
  You are assuming GPS can only fail by being jammed; also consider the possibility of the hardware module itself failing.
  - the__alchemist 3y ago
    Redundant GPS modules if that is a consideration. The camera tech in the article is for use in GPS-degraded and denied areas.
neodypsis 3y ago
For example: pre-load satellite images and restrict navigation to radius covered by said images. In case of GPS failure, fail-safe to using image navigation for getting back "home".
roger10-4 3y ago
Assuming loss of GPS, no, not fail-safe. Weather conditions (or anything that obscures a view of terrain) can cause this type of navigation to fail.
kumarm 3y ago
what happens with changes due to some natural events (Say flooding etc) ?
- snodnipper 3y ago
  clearly could be a problem...but you are really looking at feature extraction / terrain analysis and best guessing with what is available (little different to a human doing the same job). The main thing here is that storage is so cheap and light that these these systems become easily possible. Terrain, features + building heights...filter if you need on building height / terrain...work with what is left...
- pmontra 3y ago
  The sponsor is the military so the user case is probably a war. > The problem set given to the hackathon teams from the U.S. Department of Defense and the National Security Innovation Network (NSIN) focused on counter-UAS, AI/ML, and RF/Electronic Warfare. All sort of landscape changing events happen in a war. Buildings burn or are bombed and leveled, dams fall and terrain is flooded, etc. The military won't rely on the satellite images in Google Map. They'll load their own fresh images. If they're not fresh enough, they'll wait until they have them. In reports about the war in Ukraine it's common to read that FPV drones don't fly because of adverse atmospheric conditions, which could be too much wind, fog or rain. Or too many electronic warfare systems from the enemy, which is one of the points of this exercise. The drone will be shielded. Edit: snow also changes the look of the terrain.
bee_rider 3y ago
I’m probably being a little over-pedantic, but I think a fail-safe refers to a feature that puts a device in a safe state when it fails. For example, a good fail-safe device for a drone could be one that navigates it toward the ground and into a somehow out of the way location (away from people or roads where it could be a hazard). This seems more like a potential device recovery feature. If anything, it is a fail anti-safe… moving around with degraded navigation is always worse, right? Might miss the fact that you’ve entered restricted airspace…
pugworthy 3y ago
Interestingly it wouldn’t need satellite imagery. It could be taking and stitching its own image as it flies, then use that imagery to navigate by. It would also let you do some interesting goal based nav, like, “Fly to that meadow”

Can this be used for fail-safe navigation of consumer-grade drones? I.e., to return to "home" safely?

the__alchemist 3y ago

Not required; assume you are not being jammed in those cases.

neodypsis 3y ago
You are assuming GPS can only fail by being jammed; also consider the possibility of the hardware module itself failing.
- the__alchemist 3y ago
  Redundant GPS modules if that is a consideration. The camera tech in the article is for use in GPS-degraded and denied areas.

neodypsis 3y ago

For example: pre-load satellite images and restrict navigation to radius covered by said images. In case of GPS failure, fail-safe to using image navigation for getting back "home".

roger10-4 3y ago

Assuming loss of GPS, no, not fail-safe. Weather conditions (or anything that obscures a view of terrain) can cause this type of navigation to fail.

kumarm 3y ago

what happens with changes due to some natural events (Say flooding etc) ?

snodnipper 3y ago
clearly could be a problem...but you are really looking at feature extraction / terrain analysis and best guessing with what is available (little different to a human doing the same job). The main thing here is that storage is so cheap and light that these these systems become easily possible. Terrain, features + building heights...filter if you need on building height / terrain...work with what is left...
pmontra 3y ago
The sponsor is the military so the user case is probably a war. > The problem set given to the hackathon teams from the U.S. Department of Defense and the National Security Innovation Network (NSIN) focused on counter-UAS, AI/ML, and RF/Electronic Warfare. All sort of landscape changing events happen in a war. Buildings burn or are bombed and leveled, dams fall and terrain is flooded, etc. The military won't rely on the satellite images in Google Map. They'll load their own fresh images. If they're not fresh enough, they'll wait until they have them. In reports about the war in Ukraine it's common to read that FPV drones don't fly because of adverse atmospheric conditions, which could be too much wind, fog or rain. Or too many electronic warfare systems from the enemy, which is one of the points of this exercise. The drone will be shielded. Edit: snow also changes the look of the terrain.

bee_rider 3y ago

I’m probably being a little over-pedantic, but I think a fail-safe refers to a feature that puts a device in a safe state when it fails. For example, a good fail-safe device for a drone could be one that navigates it toward the ground and into a somehow out of the way location (away from people or roads where it could be a hazard). This seems more like a potential device recovery feature. If anything, it is a fail anti-safe… moving around with degraded navigation is always worse, right? Might miss the fact that you’ve entered restricted airspace…

pugworthy 3y ago

Interestingly it wouldn’t need satellite imagery. It could be taking and stitching its own image as it flies, then use that imagery to navigate by. It would also let you do some interesting goal based nav, like, “Fly to that meadow”