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Real question; is there any kind of revolutionary force inside NK? It seems like there should be, but we never hear about it. Anybody know?

duxup 3y ago
All indications are that North Korea is incredibly tightly controlled. I've never seen any report of any independent of the government organization or faction or movement within North Korea.
ch4s3 3y ago
It would be basically impossible. There’s an internal security apparatus partially trained by the East German Stasi. Anyone and everyone could be an informant to the state. Surveillance is assumed and whole families are sent to camps when people are found to be at odds with the state. What little we know from defectors, East German archives, and satellite imagery is terrifying.
overstay8930 3y ago
Ask anyone who lived in Eastern Europe pre-Glasnost what happened to people that wanted change
- gambiting 3y ago
  Sure, but (at least in Poland) there always were hidden organisations for people who disagreed with the government. Maybe not straight up militia, but there was an element outside of the government view and control.
gambiting 3y ago
It seems like there used to be at least a network of missionaries and covert organisations focused on helping North Koreans escape, but since covid hit it has all but disappeared - NK really went hard on survailence, absolute zero tolerance on dissident(even less than before) and equally China(common path for refugees before) stepped up their own surveilance game and nearly always succeeds at catching anyone attempting to cross through their country. Some interesting details here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlX7tl1QvJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlX7tl1QvJs
advisedwang 3y ago
My bet is when change eventually comes in NK, it will not be some kind of pro-democracy popular movement. It will be a coup during a time of weakness from a group of second-tier elites who think they could have it better if the depose the dictator and replace it with a council. If we're lucky, that comes along with some reforms. These would be reforms geared towards making those second-tier elites better off, of course. Perhaps just a change to how resources are spent and distributed. Perhaps some de-collectivization and private property. Perhaps secretly negotiated reduction in sanctions in exchange for some liberalization. But that could still be a move in the right direction.

duxup 3y ago

All indications are that North Korea is incredibly tightly controlled. I've never seen any report of any independent of the government organization or faction or movement within North Korea.

ch4s3 3y ago

It would be basically impossible. There’s an internal security apparatus partially trained by the East German Stasi. Anyone and everyone could be an informant to the state. Surveillance is assumed and whole families are sent to camps when people are found to be at odds with the state. What little we know from defectors, East German archives, and satellite imagery is terrifying.

overstay8930 3y ago

Ask anyone who lived in Eastern Europe pre-Glasnost what happened to people that wanted change

gambiting 3y ago
Sure, but (at least in Poland) there always were hidden organisations for people who disagreed with the government. Maybe not straight up militia, but there was an element outside of the government view and control.

gambiting 3y ago

It seems like there used to be at least a network of missionaries and covert organisations focused on helping North Koreans escape, but since covid hit it has all but disappeared - NK really went hard on survailence, absolute zero tolerance on dissident(even less than before) and equally China(common path for refugees before) stepped up their own surveilance game and nearly always succeeds at catching anyone attempting to cross through their country. Some interesting details here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlX7tl1QvJs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlX7tl1QvJs

advisedwang 3y ago

My bet is when change eventually comes in NK, it will not be some kind of pro-democracy popular movement. It will be a coup during a time of weakness from a group of second-tier elites who think they could have it better if the depose the dictator and replace it with a council. If we're lucky, that comes along with some reforms. These would be reforms geared towards making those second-tier elites better off, of course. Perhaps just a change to how resources are spent and distributed. Perhaps some de-collectivization and private property. Perhaps secretly negotiated reduction in sanctions in exchange for some liberalization. But that could still be a move in the right direction.