8 ms·

Also, if you are not fighting a war and your workplace is so toxic that you have to take military grade advice on stress reduction then you should look for a ne

Also, if you are not fighting a war and your workplace is so toxic that you have to take military grade advice on stress reduction then you should look for a new job.

wslh 3y ago
You can have a similar impact in your brain and body that fighting a war. Not only in a job. As you said, one main difference is that you can quit your job but not the war. There is a detail: you can experience these feelings even if your job is not toxic.
- senthil_rajasek 3y ago
  My comment was specifically about people stuck in a toxic work environment in a civilian establishment and I made no claims about other situations.
  - phantomathkg 3y ago
    Unfortunately you made it sounds like you deject what the page said, anyone taking the advices there is working in a toxic environment and should leave.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  "There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them - little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander." -- Hawkeye Pierce, M*A*S*H <https://www.quotes.net/mquote/790330 https://www.quotes.net/mquote/790330> War is the job you can't quit.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    That you can't legally quit. There are plenty of ways to quit. E.g. deserting, self-wounding. You also got different forms of mutiny and "fragging" officers (not really quiting, but refusing to do the job).
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      As the M*A*S*H quote notes, war doesn't only involve combatants, but noncombatants, civilians, neutral parties, children, and future generations. For the last, consider unexploded WWII ordnance routinely uncovered in Germany and the UK (an example of the latter only this week); mines in Vietnam and elsewhere in Southeast Asia, among many other theatres; Agent Orange and other chemicals utilised in various locations (including a sunken trove of mustard gas munitions aboard a US Liberty ship, the John Harvey, lost at Bari, Italy, during WWII); depleted uranium in Iraq and Afghanistan, amongst others; and the political disruptions of national borders drawn either ignorant of or to deliberately exploit local rivalries across the Middle East (Sykes-Picot), Africa, and the Indian subcontinent. Even barring that, and allowing that there are long-term employment conditions (shipping, remote development, expeditions) which might be difficult to quit on a moment's notice, military service at the least has legal proscriptions on arbitrary quitting not found in civilian service.
      - rightbyte 3y ago
        Oh ye. In the broader sense. I took it to litteraly about "quiting a job". Like, you can't refuse to be bombed etc.
        dredmorbius 3y ago
        Bingo.
defrost 3y ago
You can be a civilian and tasked with rerouting | patching the navigation and steer by wire systems of an oversized fishing trawler refitted to perform seismic survey while the majority of the crew fight a fire underneath the kerosene filled cable spools (with kilometers of microphone cables) during a monsoon storm. That's fun, luckily most people in such situations tend to be pragmatic task solving types and few are loose cannon BP observers bouncing about screaming "I'm a teapot!" and "The pirates will get us if we don't drown!" You don't have to be in the military to get caught up in surprise popgun atomic testing twixt India and Pakistan - you just have to be the bunny that took on a radiometric survey contract at third hand. In hindsight these, and other adventures, are all part of the job and not worth quitting over. As long as you're not the type that gets in a flap about every shipboard fire and runs about like a headless chicken, of course.
- senthil_rajasek 3y ago
  "while the majority of the crew fight a fire underneath the kerosene filled cable spools (with kilometers of microphone cables) during a monsoon storm." That reads like a scene from a distater movie. I am talking regular people with day jobs! Also, your use of India / Pakistan while you could have used any other nuclear power smells of prejudice.
  - defrost 3y ago
    > That reads like a scene from a disaster movie. That was my day job, designing building, field testing seismic mapping systems. Lots of coding, lots of firmware, some hardware. > Also, your use of India / Pakistan while you could have used any other nuclear power smells of prejudice. Or simply that I'm not old enough to have been over the Monte Bello's test site when it was live, whereas we were contracted to fly radiometric surveys over the Pokhran-II test site on the day of the first explosion, and crew were detained until after the completion of the Chagai-I response. If it helps, I've flown over many a former test site, many a tailings pond for a uranium mine in many parts of the world. It's a dull fact that the Pokran-II site is the only such place that went 'live' on a work day (in my experience at least).
  - 3y ago
sdenton4 3y ago
Counterpoint: Trauma is trauma. The brain doesn't care about relative measures to other situations - it responds to your own experience. https://youtu.be/JBvc7Ny4iUk?si=A-k0KSnNQbT7rB-L https://youtu.be/JBvc7Ny4iUk?si=A-k0KSnNQbT7rB-L
- GuardianCaveman 3y ago
  I went to basic training and looking back on it, it's almost funny how easy it was compared to other training and situations I was in, but RELATIVE to my life up to that point it was way harder than anything I had experienced as a high schooler. and relatively speaking it was harder than any other training that came later that was actually more challenging. I'm not sure if that makes sense but i'm agreeing with you.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    It’s kinda weird how that works out. You’d think that every time you experienced something that was harder than anything you’d done before it would be a big deal, but apparently, basic training works on a meta-level. Instead of learning how to get through that particular hard experience, you learn that you can always get through a harder experience than you’ve ever dealt with before.
stackedinserter 3y ago
Publishing on .mil website doesn't make it "military grade".
xyzelement 3y ago
People’s level of anxiety is unrelated to reality, that’s why it’s an anxiety.
djtango 3y ago
I imagine A&E probably can feel like a warzone at times. No doubt there are also other high stakes jobs (being a firefighter?) whom we all rely on so we can enjoy the privilege of not leading such stressful lives. Just like with space exploration - it's good for the secondary benefits of observing humans at the limits to filter back to everyday life. In this case stress management
petesergeant 3y ago
Don't take adderall to work on someone else's startup

Also, if you are not fighting a war and your workplace is so toxic that you have to take military grade advice on stress reduction then you should look for a new job.

wslh 3y ago

You can have a similar impact in your brain and body that fighting a war. Not only in a job. As you said, one main difference is that you can quit your job but not the war. There is a detail: you can experience these feelings even if your job is not toxic.

senthil_rajasek 3y ago
My comment was specifically about people stuck in a toxic work environment in a civilian establishment and I made no claims about other situations.
- phantomathkg 3y ago
  Unfortunately you made it sounds like you deject what the page said, anyone taking the advices there is working in a toxic environment and should leave.
dredmorbius 3y ago
"There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them - little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander." -- Hawkeye Pierce, M*A*S*H <https://www.quotes.net/mquote/790330 https://www.quotes.net/mquote/790330> War is the job you can't quit.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  That you can't legally quit. There are plenty of ways to quit. E.g. deserting, self-wounding. You also got different forms of mutiny and "fragging" officers (not really quiting, but refusing to do the job).
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    As the M*A*S*H quote notes, war doesn't only involve combatants, but noncombatants, civilians, neutral parties, children, and future generations. For the last, consider unexploded WWII ordnance routinely uncovered in Germany and the UK (an example of the latter only this week); mines in Vietnam and elsewhere in Southeast Asia, among many other theatres; Agent Orange and other chemicals utilised in various locations (including a sunken trove of mustard gas munitions aboard a US Liberty ship, the John Harvey, lost at Bari, Italy, during WWII); depleted uranium in Iraq and Afghanistan, amongst others; and the political disruptions of national borders drawn either ignorant of or to deliberately exploit local rivalries across the Middle East (Sykes-Picot), Africa, and the Indian subcontinent. Even barring that, and allowing that there are long-term employment conditions (shipping, remote development, expeditions) which might be difficult to quit on a moment's notice, military service at the least has legal proscriptions on arbitrary quitting not found in civilian service.
    - rightbyte 3y ago
      Oh ye. In the broader sense. I took it to litteraly about "quiting a job". Like, you can't refuse to be bombed etc.
      - dredmorbius 3y ago
        Bingo.

defrost 3y ago

You can be a civilian and tasked with rerouting | patching the navigation and steer by wire systems of an oversized fishing trawler refitted to perform seismic survey while the majority of the crew fight a fire underneath the kerosene filled cable spools (with kilometers of microphone cables) during a monsoon storm. That's fun, luckily most people in such situations tend to be pragmatic task solving types and few are loose cannon BP observers bouncing about screaming "I'm a teapot!" and "The pirates will get us if we don't drown!" You don't have to be in the military to get caught up in surprise popgun atomic testing twixt India and Pakistan - you just have to be the bunny that took on a radiometric survey contract at third hand. In hindsight these, and other adventures, are all part of the job and not worth quitting over. As long as you're not the type that gets in a flap about every shipboard fire and runs about like a headless chicken, of course.

senthil_rajasek 3y ago
"while the majority of the crew fight a fire underneath the kerosene filled cable spools (with kilometers of microphone cables) during a monsoon storm." That reads like a scene from a distater movie. I am talking regular people with day jobs! Also, your use of India / Pakistan while you could have used any other nuclear power smells of prejudice.
- defrost 3y ago
  > That reads like a scene from a disaster movie. That was my day job, designing building, field testing seismic mapping systems. Lots of coding, lots of firmware, some hardware. > Also, your use of India / Pakistan while you could have used any other nuclear power smells of prejudice. Or simply that I'm not old enough to have been over the Monte Bello's test site when it was live, whereas we were contracted to fly radiometric surveys over the Pokhran-II test site on the day of the first explosion, and crew were detained until after the completion of the Chagai-I response. If it helps, I've flown over many a former test site, many a tailings pond for a uranium mine in many parts of the world. It's a dull fact that the Pokran-II site is the only such place that went 'live' on a work day (in my experience at least).
- 3y ago

sdenton4 3y ago

Counterpoint: Trauma is trauma. The brain doesn't care about relative measures to other situations - it responds to your own experience. https://youtu.be/JBvc7Ny4iUk?si=A-k0KSnNQbT7rB-L https://youtu.be/JBvc7Ny4iUk?si=A-k0KSnNQbT7rB-L

GuardianCaveman 3y ago
I went to basic training and looking back on it, it's almost funny how easy it was compared to other training and situations I was in, but RELATIVE to my life up to that point it was way harder than anything I had experienced as a high schooler. and relatively speaking it was harder than any other training that came later that was actually more challenging. I'm not sure if that makes sense but i'm agreeing with you.
- philwelch 3y ago
  It’s kinda weird how that works out. You’d think that every time you experienced something that was harder than anything you’d done before it would be a big deal, but apparently, basic training works on a meta-level. Instead of learning how to get through that particular hard experience, you learn that you can always get through a harder experience than you’ve ever dealt with before.

stackedinserter 3y ago

Publishing on .mil website doesn't make it "military grade".

xyzelement 3y ago

People’s level of anxiety is unrelated to reality, that’s why it’s an anxiety.

djtango 3y ago

I imagine A&E probably can feel like a warzone at times. No doubt there are also other high stakes jobs (being a firefighter?) whom we all rely on so we can enjoy the privilege of not leading such stressful lives. Just like with space exploration - it's good for the secondary benefits of observing humans at the limits to filter back to everyday life. In this case stress management

petesergeant 3y ago

Don't take adderall to work on someone else's startup