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> I know for a fact that participation here helps line the pockets of some of the men here. This is so vague as to be unusable. Firstly, I (sadly) have absolu

> I know for a fact that participation here helps line the pockets of some of the men here. This is so vague as to be unusable. Firstly, I (sadly) have absolutely no doubt as to much of what you said. Offers of cash for sex, flirtations, white knighting. > trying to establish an earned income via freelance writing and resume work and couldn't do it HN isn't - as you know - really about soliciting work for yourself, outside a few sanctioned threads a month. There may be random people here and there who might make an ad hoc mention of it with a "reach out to me" message. But if done too much, they get sanctioned and censured. Regardless of gender. I would not be surprised if you had said you could not earn income from HN as a freelance writer if your name was John Smith. I fail to surmise that it has anything to do with your gender. But back to your comment, participation here lining the pockets of some of the men: The biggest way I see for anyone to earn income here is networking. But this place is also very specifically not LinkedIn. There is an acceptance, even encouragement of it as far as it doesn't interfere with the general discourse on posted submissions. Beyond that, job posts and similar? I can tell you that I have responded to dozens (realistically a couple of hundred) hiring and other posts in my time here. I have reached out to people with ideas, offered assistance and input. And of that, nothing has come. Not one thing. I'm not saying your experience is wrong: I'm just not seeing evidence to support your conclusion that your gender is what is limiting things here.

DoreenMichele 3y ago
I'm just not seeing evidence to support your conclusion that your gender is what is limiting things here. Okay, give me a list of openly female members who are "doing it right" and managing to successfully use Hacker News as a networking tool the way I know for a fact some of the longtime male members have done. Show me an example I can follow. Of course my gender is not the only factor. You can chalk some portion of it up to other factors and me failing doesn't prove it can't be done by any women. But I'm not personally seeing other women doing it. But men certainly are. My argument isn't that my gender is the only issue here. My argument is that as far as I can tell, I fit in here better than other women based on objective metrics like my karma count and I can't manage to break the HN "glass ceiling." So if I can't, who can? Point me to some examples. A quick search tells me 10.4 percent of CEOs are women and 22 percent of C-suite executives are women. As far as I can tell, in nearly fifteen years of participation, I am the only openly female member that I know of who has spent time on the leader board and I've done it twice under two different handles. So if the goal is "first fit in" I appear to do that better than most women. And I am unable to turn it into a means to make an adequate income. Ergo I think it is reasonable to conclude that my gender is, in fact, a factor. I will grant you it's "unprovable." How convenient for people who don't want change and want an easy out for dismissing critiques that might lead to constructive progress.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Honestly, the only member that readily comes to mind for using HN effectively to network is patio11/Patrick Mckenzie. (And pg way, way back in the day.) Show us the examples of male members who are doing it right, so we know what you think "doing it right" looks like. I hired one person after meeting them through an interaction here on HN comments. She's since left to work at Google.
- DANmode 3y ago
  Women aren't represented strongly here because they aren't represented as strongly by the numbers in tech. It's pretty obviously selection bias. Why that is, who might be responsible, we probably should all be talking about all of that more often. But often you're coming across as bashing the reader/commenters, over the head with your repeated anecdotes of what you've classified as failures to "network-up" the types of professional success or connections, or relationships you're seeking¹, instead of talking about how to make progress on the thing you actually want to change: women aren't anywhere near as prominently, or noticeably, on HN - or in tech! Though thankfully this is slowly changing. Have you written anywhere about what hasn't worked over these 15 years, so that others in a similar spot may have an easier time getting what they want from this community? I have enjoyed many of your comments over the years, have engaged with you on a variety of topics under a variety of handles - but I've gotten tired of this topic never having solutions or any related positive forces behind it. ¹ Have you defined this anywhere?
  - DoreenMichele 3y ago
    You don't have to be "in tech" to do well here. There have been lawyers and school teachers and doctors on the leader board. I've done tons of blogging over the years trying to find some kind of constructive approach. It gets no traction. I've mostly moved on from that. Men don't spend all their time examining their belly button in public about their social issues with work. They talk about their work.
    - 15457345234 3y ago
      I don't know if you want to hear this, but your bio comes off as prickly/activist and I personally wouldn't hire you because I get the impression you'd just use my company or platform as a horse to ride into battle for whatever activist cause is at the front of your mind on any given occasion. Probably could have worded that better but, y'know You are looking for employment and networking in a tech bro forum while carrying a 'NGO' persona and tech bros are pretty much the antithesis of NGO people. Culture clash doesn't even begin to cover it.

DoreenMichele 3y ago

I'm just not seeing evidence to support your conclusion that your gender is what is limiting things here. Okay, give me a list of openly female members who are "doing it right" and managing to successfully use Hacker News as a networking tool the way I know for a fact some of the longtime male members have done. Show me an example I can follow. Of course my gender is not the only factor. You can chalk some portion of it up to other factors and me failing doesn't prove it can't be done by any women. But I'm not personally seeing other women doing it. But men certainly are. My argument isn't that my gender is the only issue here. My argument is that as far as I can tell, I fit in here better than other women based on objective metrics like my karma count and I can't manage to break the HN "glass ceiling." So if I can't, who can? Point me to some examples. A quick search tells me 10.4 percent of CEOs are women and 22 percent of C-suite executives are women. As far as I can tell, in nearly fifteen years of participation, I am the only openly female member that I know of who has spent time on the leader board and I've done it twice under two different handles. So if the goal is "first fit in" I appear to do that better than most women. And I am unable to turn it into a means to make an adequate income. Ergo I think it is reasonable to conclude that my gender is, in fact, a factor. I will grant you it's "unprovable." How convenient for people who don't want change and want an easy out for dismissing critiques that might lead to constructive progress.

sokoloff 3y ago
Honestly, the only member that readily comes to mind for using HN effectively to network is patio11/Patrick Mckenzie. (And pg way, way back in the day.) Show us the examples of male members who are doing it right, so we know what you think "doing it right" looks like. I hired one person after meeting them through an interaction here on HN comments. She's since left to work at Google.
DANmode 3y ago
Women aren't represented strongly here because they aren't represented as strongly by the numbers in tech. It's pretty obviously selection bias. Why that is, who might be responsible, we probably should all be talking about all of that more often. But often you're coming across as bashing the reader/commenters, over the head with your repeated anecdotes of what you've classified as failures to "network-up" the types of professional success or connections, or relationships you're seeking¹, instead of talking about how to make progress on the thing you actually want to change: women aren't anywhere near as prominently, or noticeably, on HN - or in tech! Though thankfully this is slowly changing. Have you written anywhere about what hasn't worked over these 15 years, so that others in a similar spot may have an easier time getting what they want from this community? I have enjoyed many of your comments over the years, have engaged with you on a variety of topics under a variety of handles - but I've gotten tired of this topic never having solutions or any related positive forces behind it. ¹ Have you defined this anywhere?
- DoreenMichele 3y ago
  You don't have to be "in tech" to do well here. There have been lawyers and school teachers and doctors on the leader board. I've done tons of blogging over the years trying to find some kind of constructive approach. It gets no traction. I've mostly moved on from that. Men don't spend all their time examining their belly button in public about their social issues with work. They talk about their work.
  - 15457345234 3y ago
    I don't know if you want to hear this, but your bio comes off as prickly/activist and I personally wouldn't hire you because I get the impression you'd just use my company or platform as a horse to ride into battle for whatever activist cause is at the front of your mind on any given occasion. Probably could have worded that better but, y'know You are looking for employment and networking in a tech bro forum while carrying a 'NGO' persona and tech bros are pretty much the antithesis of NGO people. Culture clash doesn't even begin to cover it.