4 ms·

Duh, they're incorporated in the US. Are there any domestic businesses that size that can truly say they refuse to cooperate with the intelligence community? Be

Duh, they're incorporated in the US. Are there any domestic businesses that size that can truly say they refuse to cooperate with the intelligence community? Because that would be newsworthy.

throwaway4PP 3y ago
You shouldn’t approach it from such a detached, cynical angle. The import is as if the OSI embedded senior agents in the postal system during the labor unrest in the US during the 1910s-20s, and the FBI in Ma Bell during the second red scare in the 40s-50s. The possibility for gatekeeping primary modes of information exchange is quite real, and quite worrying.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Neither of those hypotheticals seem that far-fetched. Maybe that's just the cynical side of me talking, > The possibility for gatekeeping primary modes of information exchange is quite real, and quite worrying. It's distressing today. The US intercepts an insane amount of communiqué - we knew about India's involvement in the Canadian Sikhist assassination before it happened. American-made electronics leak insurgent battle plans, tattle on domestic terrorists, enable modem-level attacks and who knows what else. The only reason you and I aren't threatened by it is the decorum required to operate an above-ground surveillance network. No US company, especially at scale, can promise protection against the state for it's users. There's precious little anyone can do about it, nobody is selling an "alternative product" without state oversight.
pessimizer 3y ago
I do wonder on that basis what ground we could ever have to stand on when we criticize China's surveillance regime. That would be like the US accusing Russia of meddling in elections.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  For me at least, China's big issue is the Great Firewall. It's easy to make big claims when your citizens are self-contained in an information vacuum. The US has a similar autocracy issue, but whistleblowers are generally lauded unless they expose state secrets. The US political landscape is grim, but the grass is most certainly not greener in the single-party states.

Duh, they're incorporated in the US. Are there any domestic businesses that size that can truly say they refuse to cooperate with the intelligence community? Because that would be newsworthy.

throwaway4PP 3y ago

You shouldn’t approach it from such a detached, cynical angle. The import is as if the OSI embedded senior agents in the postal system during the labor unrest in the US during the 1910s-20s, and the FBI in Ma Bell during the second red scare in the 40s-50s. The possibility for gatekeeping primary modes of information exchange is quite real, and quite worrying.

smoldesu 3y ago
Neither of those hypotheticals seem that far-fetched. Maybe that's just the cynical side of me talking, > The possibility for gatekeeping primary modes of information exchange is quite real, and quite worrying. It's distressing today. The US intercepts an insane amount of communiqué - we knew about India's involvement in the Canadian Sikhist assassination before it happened. American-made electronics leak insurgent battle plans, tattle on domestic terrorists, enable modem-level attacks and who knows what else. The only reason you and I aren't threatened by it is the decorum required to operate an above-ground surveillance network. No US company, especially at scale, can promise protection against the state for it's users. There's precious little anyone can do about it, nobody is selling an "alternative product" without state oversight.

pessimizer 3y ago

I do wonder on that basis what ground we could ever have to stand on when we criticize China's surveillance regime. That would be like the US accusing Russia of meddling in elections.

smoldesu 3y ago
For me at least, China's big issue is the Great Firewall. It's easy to make big claims when your citizens are self-contained in an information vacuum. The US has a similar autocracy issue, but whistleblowers are generally lauded unless they expose state secrets. The US political landscape is grim, but the grass is most certainly not greener in the single-party states.