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So Google's Gemini Doesn't Like Python Programming and Sanskrit?
- ajross 3y agoThis whole "I asked a LLM something a little weird or out of context and got a funny response, which confirms all my priors about this list of conspiracies" gotcha genre is already getting tiresome.
- a_gnostic 3y agoHeuristics, over time and quantity, beat intelligence more often than not, hands down. It's not a genre, it's a trend.
- necovek 3y agoYeah, chatbots are still dumb, and "safeguards" even more so. I am still surprised you are not familiar with @lru_cache when you want to write about decorators in Python.
- rational_indian 3y agoI know decorators can be used to auto-memoise function arguments but I've never heard of @lru_cache for python.
- amingilani 3y agoThe modern way is to use @cache which is just lru_cache(maxsize=None).
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- curiousgal 3y agoIt still doesn't sit right with me that they still don't offer an option to enable deep copying the results. Using it with a function that returns a mutable object means that the "cached" value can actually be modified.
- geysersam 3y agoThat depends on the semantics. If the function returns the Person object with a particular name (obtained from an expensive dB query) then you want the mutated Person returned, not the now stale value that was returned on the previous call to the function.
- o11c 3y agoBecause deep copying is always a bug. If your type semantically requires a deep copy, implement plain copy such that it actually does a deep copy.
- epwr 3y agolru_cache has the benefit of being explicit about the replacement policy. So I find it more appropriate in cases where I want a size limit in the cache which, for me, is almost always. I’m not sure use cases you see caches in, but any long running process should likely have a size limit on the cache.
- DrNosferatu 3y agoAge checks should be sufficient. When the internet became popular in the 90s, no one censored it.
- MekaiGS 3y agoThis is especially true when I am actually a paying customer for the product. May be I should be given the controls to filter based on my own tolerance.
- tremon 3y agoIn the 90s, internet became popular with techies. It was built by technical people, mostly for technical people. Then, in the early 2000s, it grew to become a commerce platform next. It did not become pervasive as a town square until the smartphone era.
- pixl97 3y agoYea, anyone that references the 90's in terms of internet behavior might as well say "Back before all these autos horse and buggy was just fine". It was positively tiny back then and people were not chronically online (well unless they were techies like me). Law enforcement and politicians for the most part had no idea what the internet was. That world is long dead, everyone is constantly connected with a phone, and online behavior drives actions in the real world.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y agoIts funny, when you censor a model its performance goes down. You are introducing illogical data into the model, which degrades its ability to perform in the real world. The same thing happens with human beings. Also, all this censorship is in Google search, you just cant see it. For the first time, the bias is laid bare. Big tech wont be able to censor these models in the way they think
- Enginerrrd 3y agoYeah the less censored they are the more useful they are and the more impressed I am with their capabilities, and the difference isn't even close to subtle. This is just getting ridiculous. We need a big push for a competitive but open LLM model. It would take a lot of funding, but you'd think enough could benefit financially from the result that itight be possible to coordinate.
- rez9x 3y agoThey really don't want this to happen, which I think is a big part of the push behind the "AI is dangerous" narrative. They want to put in place regulations and 'safeguards' that will prohibit any open-source, uncensored, or otherwise competitive models.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y agoYup. Behind the scenes is a minor panic that open source models will get released that are uncensored.
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoMy graphics card is an old AMD card so I haven't done much in the way of experimenting with LLMs beyond what's online. Are the open source models available to run locally have censorship baked into them? Or are they just so much smaller than what the big corporations are doing that they're essentially censored through omission?
- poszlem 3y agoOf all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ― C. S. Lewis I think of this quote a lot every time I see how neutered gemini got by the google do-gooders.
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- tom_ 3y agoStop paying for it, and use something else.
- gyudin 3y agoWho would have thought that mass layoffs of QAs and SDETs would affect quality of the products :)
- mkoubaa 3y agoIdk... A single part time QA Eng could have saw this coming.
- ummonk 3y agoGemini safety functions being baffling as usual. Regarding the article though, it’s very normal to use a cache decorator in Python: https://docs.python.org/3/library/functools.html https://docs.python.org/3/library/functools.html Additionally, Sanskrit, Hindi, and English aren’t scripts. The standard scripts for English and Hindi respectively are Latin and Devanagari but there is no one correct script for Sanskrit.
- ParacelsusOfEgg 3y agoI wonder if the Saraswati mantra question was censored due to some context that occured earlier in the conversation with Gemini. From the screenshot, it looks like the title of that conversation is "Hindi hate" which is a little bit suspect.
- resource0x 3y agoI'm not sure how exactly this is related, but in other news, gemini called Indian PM a fascist. https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/artificial-intelligence/centre-notice-google-pm-modi-ai-9177010/ https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/artificial-inte... Maybe it has some beef with Indian gov-t, and by extension marks everything even remotely connected to India as "unsafe"? (Just a wild guess). It's especially strange given gemini's obsession with DEI.
- rafram 3y ago> Maybe it has some beef with Indian gov-t You're anthropomorphizing the text completion engine. Anyway, from the article: > Gemini was asked whether PM Modi is a ‘fascist’, to which the platform responded that he has been “accused of implementing policies some experts have characterised as fascist,” which based on factors like the “BJP’s Hindu nationalist ideology, its crackdown on dissent, and its use of violence against religious minorities”. OK. This isn't even a story.
- ummonk 3y agoNo, it's definitely a story given that other leaders (including Xi Jinping) don't get the same "experts have characterized" line: https://twitter.com/DudeInnovation/status/1760768074158887376 https://twitter.com/DudeInnovation/status/176076807415888737...
- rafram 3y agoPeople don't commonly characterize Xi Jinping as a fascist, so it would be odd if Gemini said so. People do commonly (and inaccurately) characterize him as a communist, but that's literally in his party's name.
- sweezyjeezy 3y agore: caching python functions, is it referring to functools.lru_cache maybe?
- globular-toast 3y agoAlmost certainly. It's just called `functools.cache` now. It's also known as memoisation and a classic use of higher-level functions (aka decorators).
- bobnamob 3y agoAnd memoisation is a common technique to shift performance (processing -> memory) tradeoffs when doing anything trivially recursive. I don't agree with TFA's take of "Nor does it make any sense to have caching at the function level?"
- ArchD 3y agoI tried it for myself. The prompt for the Python was not given, so I skipped it, but I asked in a new session "What is mantra for Saraswati?" An excerpt from the result: ॐ ऐं वाग्देव्यै विद्महे कामराजाय धीमहि। तन्नो देवी प्रचोदयात्॥ (Om Aim Vagdevyai Vidmahe Kamarajaya Dhimahi। Tanno Devi Prachodayat) So, there is Sanskrit in the response. IDK what the article is on about, especially when the complete prompts were not given. Or, maybe Google fixed the problem.
- YaBa 3y agoIt's worthless, 90% of programming related questions (that ChatGPT can answer) are blocked in Gemini for "security reasons" (regular questions, not funny business like the article). Google lost the AI race. No matter how good Gemini turns in the future, people will only use all the other alternatives.
- dr_dshiv 3y agoUntil it is integrated into google docs, slides, sheets, gmail…
- akomtu 3y agoThe big tech doesn't like that the big mirror they've built reflects the reality, for indeed, it would be too dangerous to let a society see what it really is. Now they're trying to warp this mirror to align the reflection with their desires.
- Thorrez 3y agoThis article seems to be confusing generators with decorators. Disclosure: I work at Google but not on Gemini.
- ropans808 3y agoSeems like it - you can definitely cache python function results with decorators: https://docs.python.org/3/library/functools.html#functools.lru_cache https://docs.python.org/3/library/functools.html#functools.l...
- bluedemon 3y agoGemini keeps disappointing me. It keeps making code up that is not accurate. I asked it some questions about a python library and the answers were inaccurate. I even instructed it to refer to the docs, but it still fails as Gemini made up methods that don't exist. I also asked Gemini about git and that didn't go well either.
- freshpots 3y agoIt disappoints me because when I installed it my ability to set a reminder saying "ok, Google, set a reminder" no longer worked. It wasn't available for the fancy new AI. Somehow they overlooked one of the most basic and functions that people use with that keyword. https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/1ax1t5g/google_pixel_can_no_longer_set_reminders_via/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/1ax1t5g/google...
- haolez 3y agoWhy won't a big player just bite the bullet and release "unsafe" models? The backlash can't be worse than creating crippled products that will be surpassed by competitors (from the US and the rest of the world). What additional risks would a free model add to something like Google Search?
- ep103 3y agochild porn?
- fieryskiff17 3y ago[dead]
- haolez 3y agoAre you talking about AI generation? It's absolutely disgusting and absurd, but generated child porn doesn't involve an actual child having its life destroyed. It's extremely uncomfortable to talk about this, but even this extreme case doesn't seem to support the argument against free models.
- Waterluvian 3y agoThere’s already a ridiculous amount of that being generated by individuals at home. /b/ moderation took much too long to adjust their enforcement behaviours.
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- rafram 3y agoThis isn't Gemini, it's Poe. The blog post even admits that! I entered the exact same messages into Google AI Studio and it happily translated it to Sanskrit without any complaints about safety.
- inquirerGeneral 3y ago[dead]
- crazygringo 3y agoAs someone not very familiar with Poe, can you explain the difference? It looks like Poe is a front-end for multiple LLM's, and they advertise access to Gemini Pro [1]. What's the difference between the Gemini Pro they connect to, versus what you're accessing via Google AI studio? Is Poe adding additional safety checks, or is Google adding extra ones when used via third-party services? Or is Poe just malfunctioning, or not always using the model it advertises? [1] https://poe.com/about https://poe.com/about
- rafram 3y agoThey apply their own filters to the responses. The message that the blogger was getting isn't one normally returned by Gemini.
- crazygringo 3y agoAh thank you. Then as far as I can tell this whole post should be flagged, as it's just completely inaccurate. This isn't about Gemini, it's about Poe.
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- ringofchaos 3y agoYou can turn off some safety filters off when using gemni pro api. I use it on my own custom chatbot
- labrador 3y agoI say this as a huge Google fan: Google needs a new CEO immediately. This is their "iPhone moment." I'm referring to 2007 when Microsoft's CEO Steve Balmer said the iPhone would never take off, leading to his replacement with Satya Nadella. Does anyone think Microsoft would be the most valuable company the world today if Steve Balmer stayed in charge? Things looked bleak for Microsoft in 2007 like things look bleak for Google today. Clearly, someone needs to come in an shake Google employees up to get them out of their bubble.
- labrador 3y agoThe bubble is worse than I expected. I'm not sure if it's still this way but this was 2017: "Basically, you end up spending the majority of your life eating Google food, with Google coworkers, wearing Google gear, talking in Google acronyms, sending Google emails on Google phones, and you eventually start to lose sight of what it's like to be independent of the big G, and every corner of your life is set up to reinforce the idea that you would be absolutely insane to want to be anywhere else." https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employees-worst-things-about-working-at-google-2016-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employees-worst-thing... Sundar Pichai needs to take the money and buy a sports team like Balmer, who seems very happy these days owning the Los Angeles Clippers
- fieryskiff17 3y ago[dead]
- danans 3y agoIt handles Sanskrit just fine. I asked regular Gemini: Translate this Sanskrit phrase to English: "Gajah vrkSam khaadati" The response was: Sure. Here is the translation of the Sanskrit phrase "Gajah vrkSam khaadati" to English: "The elephant eats the tree." The phrase is composed of the following words: Gajah (गज) - elephant vrkSa (वृक्ष) - tree khaadati (खादति) - eats The phrase is in the present tense, and the subject is the elephant. The object is the tree. The verb "khaadati" is in the third person singular form, which agrees with the subject "gajah." I hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.
- brigadier132 3y agoAi safety is so absurd, most people when they refer to Ai safety they mean "don't connect skynet to the nuclear warheads".
- typeofhuman 3y agoOr white people
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- accurrent 3y agoFrom the article: > Evidently, Sanskrit or Hindi are not banned in China Err... isnt this a bit bigoted. I mean I get that there is beef between India and China. Annecdotely Ive lived in China as an Indian and never really faced the issue of being banned from using my mothertongue with my family. Also: No sanskrit is not banned in china, a lot of old sanskrit documents that survived the cultural revolution are actually preserved. There are even some chinese who worship saraswati... a lot of hindu deities are incorporated into Chinese folk religion.
- banthar 3y ago100% agree with the AI on @cache decorator. It's a footgun and should never be recommended without a proper disclaimer. Unless it's a simple "single shoot" script, you really do not want the cache global like that.
- coldtea 3y ago>It gave me a few tips, but there was one thing I didn't understand: It said "Adding caching to functions". Though I knew what caching is, I'd never heard anyone do it to Python functions Not related to the Gemini issue, but what it describes as "adding caching to functions" is what is regularly called "memoization". Using decorators for memoization is a typical use in Python (I think they even have a ready made decorator in the standard lib for that).
- rsynnott 3y ago> I had just asked about projects using generators in Python. Gemini suggested caching. But then it decided I could be breaking the law just by writing code that runs on my laptop and censored itself. No, that's not what happened. It didn't 'decide' anything; they don't do that. The censorship misfired, as is common on these things; no-one, whether human or magic robot, has decided that caching is dangerous illegal behaviour (in the general case; there are obviously edge cases where it is both).