4 ms·

>> Like every man of sense and good feeling, I abominate work. But I would rather put in eight hours a day at a Government office than be condemned to lead a li

>> Like every man of sense and good feeling, I abominate work. But I would rather put in eight hours a day at a Government office than be condemned to lead a life of "pleasure"; I would even, I believe, prefer to write a million words of journalism a year. I adore Huxley. Brave New World, The Doors of Perception, Those Barren Leaves... I think the overmedication facet of Brave New World is so very true. We know we have an opioid problem because people are addicted and then dying. I think it would be naive to think that we aren't doing the same with everything in psychopharmacology.

whaleofatw2022 3y ago
Agree on some level. Over my life I have found that some things, yes I do need medication for, but I -personally- do not need anti depressants to be happy... However people in society increasingly take the view of 'you need medication' rather than "maybe when this person tells me what is bothering them I should reflect on if I'm contributing to the problem"
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  I begrudge no one their medication. I have been blessed with some very dear friends over my life. My first brush with the ills of psychopharmacology was with a woman I knew whose mother had just passed. I went to visit her a few days after the funeral and she was rather spry. I, being a man of little regard for my own well being asked the probing question "You seem rather upbeat". It was met with a resounding "I know, and I can't even cry". She removed prozac from her life shortly after, went through a bought of horrid depression (putting off processing things means you pay later). Today she's happy, bright and successful... I have a current friend who is "suffering from anxiety and depression". Her life is hard, for a number of reasons. Medication makes her "happy" and she does not address the structural issues in her life. You can't help those who wont help themselves, I get that. But if you dont feel the pain how do you know to pull back from the fire.
  - lm7272 3y ago
    honestly really do not think you understand SSRIs or anti depressants at all man. Never once encountered people being unable to cry or feel negative things whilst on anti-depressants. Even if you have, to disregard antidepressants as some evil big pharma mind control is so incredibly narrow minded.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
      I don't think GPs post generalises well(nor does any simple statement on psychopharmacology, everyone is and reacts differently), but I've spoken to many people who have reported emotional blunting from SSRIs. It's a fairly common complaint. Being "upbeat" from antidepressants also happens a lot to people with bipolar disorder, who are often misdiagnosed with and mistreated for depression before their first episode of hypomania/mania.
    - bozhark 3y ago
      And hand waving all the suicides is rather obtuse
    - moritzwarhier 3y ago
      I was on SSRIs for 7 years and I was unable to cry on them. While feeling extremely helpless and wanting to die often, unable to have sex etc
      - Hit-squad-17 3y ago
        I went from 10m of Lexapro to 20 during the lock down , been cutting down to 15 for a few months now . Taking it slow ... Cause when I quit abruptly a few years ago... I caught myself , while gazing at my 12 year old ... "I'm gonna miss him" .... that scared me, I'm not suicidal OR homicidal but .... having that thought freaked me out .... so I started taking them again . I hate it . I feel like it's why I don't care to have sex Scared
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- inquirerGeneral 3y ago
  [dead]
- lannisterstark 3y ago
  Eh I don't know. Sometimes people do a lot of what you say "ohyou don't need medication" when in reality, if they did, they wouldn't be here in this condition and it wouldn't get this worse. There exist plenty of I don't like taking medicine people.
conradev 3y ago
Have you read Island? It lays out Aldous’ idea of utopia, and it’s pretty compelling
- bee_rider 3y ago
  You have to appreciate the chutzpah of Huxley, writing this sort of eutopian novel after his dystopian one. Anybody can complain, it is much harder to suggest something radically different that you think is better.
CTDOCodebases 3y ago
Pleasure does not exist in the absence of pain. It’s the avoidance of pain that is the problem.
- Hit-squad-17 3y ago
  Ok
- huytersd 3y ago
  4 years into my early retirement. It’s goddamn heaven. That saying is for mice.
- cassepipe 3y ago
  This is nonsense The main guideline of my thirty years on this earth has been to optimize for least pain and and I have been blessed with much more joy than I believe the average Joe experiences. I can assure you the curious mind, when unencumbered by crippling pain, will find in a lifetime's worth of enthusiasm for life.
  - networkchad 3y ago
    [dead]
  - CTDOCodebases 3y ago
    You said "..least pain..". Thats not an absense of pain.
    - lannisterstark 3y ago
      Minimizing pain is the basic point. You're essentially arguing on pedantic points. We know what they're trying to say.
      - zer00eyz 3y ago
        > Minimizing pain is the basic point. That is what YOU want. > We know what they're trying to say. The argument your making shows your missing the subtly of what the poster and Huxley are saying. If your house always smells like bacon, if all your drinks and food are sweet how quickly does thee joy from these things fade? A life, without contrast is one that only drives you to escalation in a single direction. At some point there would not be enough sugar in the world to indulge your sweet tooth. Huxley was a student of buddhism, he understood that this flowed in the other direction. Chasing the pretty girl, the idea of catching her, of you and her is pleasurable. If you fail in this task it is pain... Buddhism would have you remove desire to remove pain. This idea, this theme, is the focus of Huxley's works and is present to some extent in this essay (the pleasure from passive consumption is a net bad). Fixing the toilet isnt "fun". There is satisfaction in doing a "shitty" job, one that isnt had if you call the plumber.
senthil_rajasek 3y ago
"But I would rather put in eight hours a day at a Government office than be condemned to lead a life of "pleasure" " I would like to hear that from a real government employee or any employee who has no other choice but to HAVE a job...
- Hit-squad-17 3y ago
  I love not having to work . Although it sucks to not have a pension
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  >>> I would like to hear that from a real government employee or any employee who has no other choice but to HAVE a job... I think you missed the point of the essay if this is your response. He calls out actual toil later on.
  - bluebit 3y ago
    So he's playing both sides, like a true philosopher. The simple fact is, work for survival sake is often mind-numbing and soul destroying. Finding work you have a passion for that creates a positive impact in the world is something everyone should strive for, even the wealthy trust fund kids that don't need to lift a finger.
    - zer00eyz 3y ago
      >> The simple fact is, work for survival sake is often mind-numbing and soul destroying. This would be the government work. It isnt there to satisfy, it's there to keep a roof over your head. IF it was fun they would not PAY you would they? >> In place of the old pleasures demanding intelligence and personal initiative, we have vast organizations that provide us with ready-made distractions - distractions which demand from pleasure-seekers no personal participation and no intellectual effort of any sort. To the interminable democracies of the world a million cinemas bring the same stale balderdash. There have always been fourth-rate writers and dramatists; but their works, in the past, quickly died without getting beyond the boundaries of the city or the country in which they appeared. To-day, the inventions of the scenario-writer go out from Los Angeles across the whole world. The point he's making is to find that passion elsewhere, make music, play sports ... DO rather than CONSUME. And that everyone should do this in all things. These are the "pleasures" and they should be enriching you via your participation not your passivity. >> Finding work you have a passion for that creates a positive impact in the world is something everyone should strive for No one wants to work at the DMV, no one dreamed that in their child hood. But we need people to do it... he's speaking out against them going home and sucking down film, tv, tiktok rather than DOING things that enrich their minds and bodies. >> So he's playing both sides, like a true philosopher. So no this is not what he's doing at all!
empath-nirvana 3y ago
I love Huxley, but this essay is just an especially well written example of an old man yelling at clouds, which is funny, because he was still in his 20s when he wrote it.

whaleofatw2022 3y ago

Agree on some level. Over my life I have found that some things, yes I do need medication for, but I -personally- do not need anti depressants to be happy... However people in society increasingly take the view of 'you need medication' rather than "maybe when this person tells me what is bothering them I should reflect on if I'm contributing to the problem"

zer00eyz 3y ago
I begrudge no one their medication. I have been blessed with some very dear friends over my life. My first brush with the ills of psychopharmacology was with a woman I knew whose mother had just passed. I went to visit her a few days after the funeral and she was rather spry. I, being a man of little regard for my own well being asked the probing question "You seem rather upbeat". It was met with a resounding "I know, and I can't even cry". She removed prozac from her life shortly after, went through a bought of horrid depression (putting off processing things means you pay later). Today she's happy, bright and successful... I have a current friend who is "suffering from anxiety and depression". Her life is hard, for a number of reasons. Medication makes her "happy" and she does not address the structural issues in her life. You can't help those who wont help themselves, I get that. But if you dont feel the pain how do you know to pull back from the fire.
- lm7272 3y ago
  honestly really do not think you understand SSRIs or anti depressants at all man. Never once encountered people being unable to cry or feel negative things whilst on anti-depressants. Even if you have, to disregard antidepressants as some evil big pharma mind control is so incredibly narrow minded.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    I don't think GPs post generalises well(nor does any simple statement on psychopharmacology, everyone is and reacts differently), but I've spoken to many people who have reported emotional blunting from SSRIs. It's a fairly common complaint. Being "upbeat" from antidepressants also happens a lot to people with bipolar disorder, who are often misdiagnosed with and mistreated for depression before their first episode of hypomania/mania.
  - bozhark 3y ago
    And hand waving all the suicides is rather obtuse
  - moritzwarhier 3y ago
    I was on SSRIs for 7 years and I was unable to cry on them. While feeling extremely helpless and wanting to die often, unable to have sex etc
    - Hit-squad-17 3y ago
      I went from 10m of Lexapro to 20 during the lock down , been cutting down to 15 for a few months now . Taking it slow ... Cause when I quit abruptly a few years ago... I caught myself , while gazing at my 12 year old ... "I'm gonna miss him" .... that scared me, I'm not suicidal OR homicidal but .... having that thought freaked me out .... so I started taking them again . I hate it . I feel like it's why I don't care to have sex Scared
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
inquirerGeneral 3y ago
[dead]
lannisterstark 3y ago
Eh I don't know. Sometimes people do a lot of what you say "ohyou don't need medication" when in reality, if they did, they wouldn't be here in this condition and it wouldn't get this worse. There exist plenty of I don't like taking medicine people.

conradev 3y ago

Have you read Island? It lays out Aldous’ idea of utopia, and it’s pretty compelling

bee_rider 3y ago
You have to appreciate the chutzpah of Huxley, writing this sort of eutopian novel after his dystopian one. Anybody can complain, it is much harder to suggest something radically different that you think is better.

CTDOCodebases 3y ago

Pleasure does not exist in the absence of pain. It’s the avoidance of pain that is the problem.

Hit-squad-17 3y ago
Ok
huytersd 3y ago
4 years into my early retirement. It’s goddamn heaven. That saying is for mice.
cassepipe 3y ago
This is nonsense The main guideline of my thirty years on this earth has been to optimize for least pain and and I have been blessed with much more joy than I believe the average Joe experiences. I can assure you the curious mind, when unencumbered by crippling pain, will find in a lifetime's worth of enthusiasm for life.
- networkchad 3y ago
  [dead]
- CTDOCodebases 3y ago
  You said "..least pain..". Thats not an absense of pain.
  - lannisterstark 3y ago
    Minimizing pain is the basic point. You're essentially arguing on pedantic points. We know what they're trying to say.
    - zer00eyz 3y ago
      > Minimizing pain is the basic point. That is what YOU want. > We know what they're trying to say. The argument your making shows your missing the subtly of what the poster and Huxley are saying. If your house always smells like bacon, if all your drinks and food are sweet how quickly does thee joy from these things fade? A life, without contrast is one that only drives you to escalation in a single direction. At some point there would not be enough sugar in the world to indulge your sweet tooth. Huxley was a student of buddhism, he understood that this flowed in the other direction. Chasing the pretty girl, the idea of catching her, of you and her is pleasurable. If you fail in this task it is pain... Buddhism would have you remove desire to remove pain. This idea, this theme, is the focus of Huxley's works and is present to some extent in this essay (the pleasure from passive consumption is a net bad). Fixing the toilet isnt "fun". There is satisfaction in doing a "shitty" job, one that isnt had if you call the plumber.

senthil_rajasek 3y ago

"But I would rather put in eight hours a day at a Government office than be condemned to lead a life of "pleasure" " I would like to hear that from a real government employee or any employee who has no other choice but to HAVE a job...

Hit-squad-17 3y ago
I love not having to work . Although it sucks to not have a pension
zer00eyz 3y ago
>>> I would like to hear that from a real government employee or any employee who has no other choice but to HAVE a job... I think you missed the point of the essay if this is your response. He calls out actual toil later on.
- bluebit 3y ago
  So he's playing both sides, like a true philosopher. The simple fact is, work for survival sake is often mind-numbing and soul destroying. Finding work you have a passion for that creates a positive impact in the world is something everyone should strive for, even the wealthy trust fund kids that don't need to lift a finger.
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    >> The simple fact is, work for survival sake is often mind-numbing and soul destroying. This would be the government work. It isnt there to satisfy, it's there to keep a roof over your head. IF it was fun they would not PAY you would they? >> In place of the old pleasures demanding intelligence and personal initiative, we have vast organizations that provide us with ready-made distractions - distractions which demand from pleasure-seekers no personal participation and no intellectual effort of any sort. To the interminable democracies of the world a million cinemas bring the same stale balderdash. There have always been fourth-rate writers and dramatists; but their works, in the past, quickly died without getting beyond the boundaries of the city or the country in which they appeared. To-day, the inventions of the scenario-writer go out from Los Angeles across the whole world. The point he's making is to find that passion elsewhere, make music, play sports ... DO rather than CONSUME. And that everyone should do this in all things. These are the "pleasures" and they should be enriching you via your participation not your passivity. >> Finding work you have a passion for that creates a positive impact in the world is something everyone should strive for No one wants to work at the DMV, no one dreamed that in their child hood. But we need people to do it... he's speaking out against them going home and sucking down film, tv, tiktok rather than DOING things that enrich their minds and bodies. >> So he's playing both sides, like a true philosopher. So no this is not what he's doing at all!

empath-nirvana 3y ago

I love Huxley, but this essay is just an especially well written example of an old man yelling at clouds, which is funny, because he was still in his 20s when he wrote it.