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I've always found the programming world to lack the standards and rigor of other professions like being a medical doctor or an engineer where you need to join o

I've always found the programming world to lack the standards and rigor of other professions like being a medical doctor or an engineer where you need to join organizations and work under a pro for a few number of years before you can rightfully call yourself an engineer. This means that I've noticed, for example, that seniors in one company with lax standards, would be at best a junior in another company with higher standards. Heck I've even worked under these "seniors" and thought to myself: "in what world are you senior if I'm better at everything that you do? I can learn nothing from you." But all that to say, is that I don't blame seniors for not having sure footing. It's hard if you can't can compare yourself to a well defined standard or paragon of excellence.

vladms 3y ago
I doubt any profession for which the tools evolve as fast as programming can have "standards and rigor". Another root cause is that abilities of people (in any field) are hard to compare. Programming (and other) professions are in fact team efforts, and while we there are some assessments for individual abilities, good luck assessing abilities of teams before forming. Not sure it is a problem to solve at this point: we care about the results and we have a lot more working software than 20 years ago, so something goes well.
senthil_rajasek 3y ago
Comparing programming to Medicine is not a apples to apples comparison. Atleast, in the U.S there is huge shortage of medical doctors. Besides programming is ideal for a try/fail/learn approach on your own. A well known perl wisdom is "what you don't know won't hurt you" I am happy programming is an "open" profession.
SilasX 3y ago
>"in what world are you senior if I'm better at everything that you do? I can learn nothing from you." Whoa, sounds like they are better than you at some things! Marketing themselves, excuse-making, getting others to do the hard parts of their job.
- thr0waway001 3y ago
  You are absolutely right. The joke is on me. lol Honestly, I din't resent these people, but at the same time it was a situation where I was hoping that the "senior" guy could help us out with the work we had and move our team forward. Needless to say, they didn't last long on our team and we let him go cause he just couldn't keep up. It did, additionally, point out how shitty our process for hiring was as well.
  - SilasX 3y ago
    haha I was in a similar situation myself. A manager asked me for an estimate to do a certain project involving software system S, and I replied back that I wasn't familiar with the deep inner workings I'd need to know, but if he gave me a day to poke around I could see what's possible with it and give a good estimate. He replied, "nah, don't bother, I'll just hire someone who's already an expert at it." Fast forward three weeks, we had the new hire intended for this role. I went over to introduce myself to him. At this point, I wasn't upset, I figured that was a reasonable judgment call that could have gone either way, and was actually looking forward to learning from someone who was familiar with it. So after introductions, I said, "I'm glad we'll have you around, I hope I can learn from you about S," and he was like, "Oh, S? Man, I haven't used that in ages, I'd need at least a few days to get familiar with it." Facepalm. I guess I should have just lied. Even with my help, I don't think he ever got to where I was on S.

vladms 3y ago

I doubt any profession for which the tools evolve as fast as programming can have "standards and rigor". Another root cause is that abilities of people (in any field) are hard to compare. Programming (and other) professions are in fact team efforts, and while we there are some assessments for individual abilities, good luck assessing abilities of teams before forming. Not sure it is a problem to solve at this point: we care about the results and we have a lot more working software than 20 years ago, so something goes well.

senthil_rajasek 3y ago

Comparing programming to Medicine is not a apples to apples comparison. Atleast, in the U.S there is huge shortage of medical doctors. Besides programming is ideal for a try/fail/learn approach on your own. A well known perl wisdom is "what you don't know won't hurt you" I am happy programming is an "open" profession.

SilasX 3y ago

>"in what world are you senior if I'm better at everything that you do? I can learn nothing from you." Whoa, sounds like they are better than you at some things! Marketing themselves, excuse-making, getting others to do the hard parts of their job.

thr0waway001 3y ago
You are absolutely right. The joke is on me. lol Honestly, I din't resent these people, but at the same time it was a situation where I was hoping that the "senior" guy could help us out with the work we had and move our team forward. Needless to say, they didn't last long on our team and we let him go cause he just couldn't keep up. It did, additionally, point out how shitty our process for hiring was as well.
- SilasX 3y ago
  haha I was in a similar situation myself. A manager asked me for an estimate to do a certain project involving software system S, and I replied back that I wasn't familiar with the deep inner workings I'd need to know, but if he gave me a day to poke around I could see what's possible with it and give a good estimate. He replied, "nah, don't bother, I'll just hire someone who's already an expert at it." Fast forward three weeks, we had the new hire intended for this role. I went over to introduce myself to him. At this point, I wasn't upset, I figured that was a reasonable judgment call that could have gone either way, and was actually looking forward to learning from someone who was familiar with it. So after introductions, I said, "I'm glad we'll have you around, I hope I can learn from you about S," and he was like, "Oh, S? Man, I haven't used that in ages, I'd need at least a few days to get familiar with it." Facepalm. I guess I should have just lied. Even with my help, I don't think he ever got to where I was on S.