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> I don't think recovering 97% vs 95% of 8% of the material is going to change the economics of battery recyling. Not yet but as more and more EVs reach end of
by vinni2 3y ago
> I don't think recovering 97% vs 95% of 8% of the material is going to change the economics of battery recyling.
Not yet but as more and more EVs reach end of life and these rare earth metals become rarer then it starts make a difference.
- pfdietz 3y agoNeither nickel nor cobalt are rare earth metals. They may be somewhat rare, and they come from the earth, but that's not what "rare earth" means.
- tgtweak 3y agoat $28,000/MT it's rare enough to worry about - for context it looks like a model 3 has about 4.5KG of cobalt in it's entire pack, or around ~$130 at current spot rate.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pfdietz 3y agoTotally irrelevant to the point I was making.
- ajross 3y agoThis is like arguing with an astronomer about what a "metal" is. The colloquial definition of "rare earth element" when talking about industry and not chemistry generally means anything you mine that isn't an already-concentrated ore.
- malfist 3y agoWhat do you mean? Any element heavier than hydrogen is a metal, everyone knows this.
- whycome 3y agoSometimes hydrogen might be a metal…. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen
- pfdietz 3y agoQ: How many legs does a dog have, if we call a tail a leg? A: Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one. One sometimes sees the nonsense you are describing there in attempts to smear PV as dirty because it "uses rare earth elements", with a pointer toward dirty REE processing in China. PV does not use the actual REEs; this smear exploits the terminological slovenliness being engaged in here. I don't believe any honest person in industry would use "rare earth element" to refer to nickel or cobalt.
- ajross 3y ago> I don't believe any honest person in industry The question should be whether you were genuinely confused about what the upthread commenter meant by using "these rare earth metals" to refer to battery reactants. You were not. You were just being a pedant. Now you're heaping onto the mistake by (1) calling the upthread comment "nonsense", (2) calling me "dishonest", (3) calling the discussion a "smear", and "slovenly". Good grief. Can you really just not? There are ways to have this discussion without flinging poo...
- pfdietz 3y agoI'm being pedantic because the confusion has been exploited by bad actors in the way I described. Now, I correct it, to prevent the exploit. "Slovenly" is a precise description of the problem here, up to and including the moral component of that word. "Smear" is also accurate in what I was referring to there: these were clear bad faith attempts to disseminate a falsehood about PV. Your own use was not called a smear, you may just be the kind of useful fool the smear depended on.
- justinclift 3y agoAs additional info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element#Minerals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element#Minerals