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Hard disagree. You probably start with the premise that there is a standard, normal behaviour and porn introduced deviations from it. It has not unless we are t

by x86x87 3y ago

Hard disagree. You probably start with the premise that there is a standard, normal behaviour and porn introduced deviations from it. It has not unless we are talking about really extrem, pathological cases.

ametrau 3y ago
You’re starting from the premise that if it’s possible, everyone does it. Obviously wrong. You can be influenced, and the influence of porn is extreme / deviant behaviour (to counteract the hedonic treadmill). I’m exhausted writing something so obvious.
- jkic47 3y ago
  There is no point arguing with people unwilling to engage because their minds are made up...
  - x86x87 3y ago
    I agree. No point in arguing with you. You start from a premise and after that that's it.
    - pessimizer 3y ago
      You can't require that people accept that you're right as a precondition for arguing with them. If you want to argue that porn perverts sexuality, you can't demand that your opponent acknowledge that their sexuality has been perverted by porn. You wouldn't take that structure seriously in any other context.
      - x86x87 3y ago
        Apparently they can. :) Life doesn't work this way though.
acdha 3y ago
An example which I’ve seen raised by researchers: 20 years ago, choking was considered an extreme, pathological case due to the risks. Now it’s very easy to find surveys where women report pressure or even attempts to do it without consent because a generation of men grew up with porn presenting that as standard. The same is true for things like anal sex, etc. which aren’t enjoyable and involve hassle/risk for the female partner but a lot of young men don’t realize that because they’re used to seeing porn actors imitating pleasure and often masking discomfort. I wouldn’t expect anyone to say that there were never extreme porn options on the market but it seems pretty broadly accepted that a lot of previously niche things have become mainstream as vendors are trying to stand out in a very competitive market.
- x86x87 3y ago
  I'm sorry, what? Choking someone without their consent? This is not porn, it's assault. Anal sex is not enjoyable? It is. And has been a thing for eons. In fact anal sex was a way to workaround getting pregnant before birth control was a thing/was mainstream. I feel like we have the puritan point of view of what sex should be and anything that is not that is bad/not pleasurable. So here's where I land: what whatever you want. Do whatever you want in the bedroom as long as it's 2 consenting adults. I don't believe that porn itself is to blame or be demonized for anything. I also firmly believe that porn may provide an outlet for people to see and experience things that they don't want or cannot experience in real life.
  - acdha 3y ago
    > I'm sorry, what? Choking someone without their consent? This is not porn, it's assault. Seeing it in porn is what makes some men think it’s mainstream and something that their partner should enjoy, and there are many reports that it’s no longer uncommon for someone to try it unsolicited and then express surprise when his partner complains. > Anal sex is not enjoyable? It is. For men, yes, but women don’t have a prostate and report far less enjoyment. That doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been used for birth control (people have been joking about technical virginity for ages) but again there are many reports of women being pressured into it or having men try it without asking because those guys are used to porn stars pretending to find it incredibly pleasurable and, in many cases, not at all discussing how to be safe. Again, the claim is not that porn is evil for showing uncommon things but the problems around misrepresentation and consent. If sites promote videos showing women pretending to find it highly pleasurable to be slapped or choked, having forceful anal sex, etc. some fraction of the men watching it are going to think that’s representative of real life. Hopefully they will talk with actual partners about what they enjoy, but that’s certainly not a given and there’s a long, ugly history of men resorting to threats or violence when they think they’re owed something. This is another area where companies’ promotion algorithms raises questions about how much they’re contributing to a trend, too. If their design encourages studios to push boundaries harder to get more interactions, the feedback loop is no longer organic - they’re shaping the market, not just responding to customer demand.

by x86x87 3y ago

ametrau 3y ago

You’re starting from the premise that if it’s possible, everyone does it. Obviously wrong. You can be influenced, and the influence of porn is extreme / deviant behaviour (to counteract the hedonic treadmill). I’m exhausted writing something so obvious.

jkic47 3y ago
There is no point arguing with people unwilling to engage because their minds are made up...
- x86x87 3y ago
  I agree. No point in arguing with you. You start from a premise and after that that's it.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    You can't require that people accept that you're right as a precondition for arguing with them. If you want to argue that porn perverts sexuality, you can't demand that your opponent acknowledge that their sexuality has been perverted by porn. You wouldn't take that structure seriously in any other context.
    - x86x87 3y ago
      Apparently they can. :) Life doesn't work this way though.

acdha 3y ago

An example which I’ve seen raised by researchers: 20 years ago, choking was considered an extreme, pathological case due to the risks. Now it’s very easy to find surveys where women report pressure or even attempts to do it without consent because a generation of men grew up with porn presenting that as standard. The same is true for things like anal sex, etc. which aren’t enjoyable and involve hassle/risk for the female partner but a lot of young men don’t realize that because they’re used to seeing porn actors imitating pleasure and often masking discomfort. I wouldn’t expect anyone to say that there were never extreme porn options on the market but it seems pretty broadly accepted that a lot of previously niche things have become mainstream as vendors are trying to stand out in a very competitive market.

x86x87 3y ago
I'm sorry, what? Choking someone without their consent? This is not porn, it's assault. Anal sex is not enjoyable? It is. And has been a thing for eons. In fact anal sex was a way to workaround getting pregnant before birth control was a thing/was mainstream. I feel like we have the puritan point of view of what sex should be and anything that is not that is bad/not pleasurable. So here's where I land: what whatever you want. Do whatever you want in the bedroom as long as it's 2 consenting adults. I don't believe that porn itself is to blame or be demonized for anything. I also firmly believe that porn may provide an outlet for people to see and experience things that they don't want or cannot experience in real life.
- acdha 3y ago
  > I'm sorry, what? Choking someone without their consent? This is not porn, it's assault. Seeing it in porn is what makes some men think it’s mainstream and something that their partner should enjoy, and there are many reports that it’s no longer uncommon for someone to try it unsolicited and then express surprise when his partner complains. > Anal sex is not enjoyable? It is. For men, yes, but women don’t have a prostate and report far less enjoyment. That doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been used for birth control (people have been joking about technical virginity for ages) but again there are many reports of women being pressured into it or having men try it without asking because those guys are used to porn stars pretending to find it incredibly pleasurable and, in many cases, not at all discussing how to be safe. Again, the claim is not that porn is evil for showing uncommon things but the problems around misrepresentation and consent. If sites promote videos showing women pretending to find it highly pleasurable to be slapped or choked, having forceful anal sex, etc. some fraction of the men watching it are going to think that’s representative of real life. Hopefully they will talk with actual partners about what they enjoy, but that’s certainly not a given and there’s a long, ugly history of men resorting to threats or violence when they think they’re owed something. This is another area where companies’ promotion algorithms raises questions about how much they’re contributing to a trend, too. If their design encourages studios to push boundaries harder to get more interactions, the feedback loop is no longer organic - they’re shaping the market, not just responding to customer demand.