2 ms·

Or maybe the junior engineers grew up with JavaScript, loved it, and have been driving the actual seniors who grew up with strict typing and predictable behavio

Or maybe the junior engineers grew up with JavaScript, loved it, and have been driving the actual seniors who grew up with strict typing and predictable behavior insane. I would not be surprised if JavaScript gets the reputation of 2012 PHP in a decade.

simonw 3y ago
People were refusing to take JavaScript seriously twenty years ago! Here's something I wrote about that back in 2005: https://www.sitepoint.com/2005-the-year-of-the-dom/ https://www.sitepoint.com/2005-the-year-of-the-dom/
wiseowise 3y ago
> Or maybe the junior engineers grew up with JavaScript, loved it, and have been driving the actual seniors who grew up with strict typing and predictable behavior insane. What the hell are you even talking about? > I would not be surprised if JavaScript gets the reputation of 2012 PHP in a decade. What year are you from? JavaScript already passed that stage with ES6.
jokethrowaway 3y ago
I feel 2012 PHP is the perfect description for JS reputation today and I've been working in companies where they do node.js as main backend tech since 2011 and react since 2015. I think it's the result of a mix of clunky tooling (started with transpiling), OSS maintainers who stopped caring and left a broken mess everywhere and lack of static typing (+ dissatisfaction with TS, despite it being the only sensible option for types), the diffusion of JS in uncool corporate workplaces. I still think both PHP (which I've used extensively between 2006-2011) and JS are fine languages with a few defects.
- gjsman-1000 3y ago
  I also mean it in the sense of 10 years from now. In 10 years, who is going to want to open up that unmaintained enterprise NodeJS project running on now-ancient Angular or React? Heck, what if it used Vue 2? It’s probably going to be worse than what editing a decade-old PHP project feels like now. That’s if it even builds with just one year of no maintenance. At least the PHP project didn’t rely on packages as simple as leftpad or is-odd.
- dep_b 3y ago
  Your vanilla PHP will still work in 10 years, with a few deprecation fixes. And since vanilla PHP is such a full-featured language and framework, you don't those third party dependencies.
bilalq 3y ago
In 2012, PHP was already going through a renaissance. PHP 5.4 had come out with massive improvements and the release cycle for updates was accelerated. Composer and Laravel were released and people were not only building real apps with PHP like they always did, but they now had much better tooling, language features, and a more thriving ecosystem. I expect JS/TS's reputation to only grow more favorable over time. The pragmatic path of its evolution and the resources invested into improving it over the years have really made it shine.

simonw 3y ago

People were refusing to take JavaScript seriously twenty years ago! Here's something I wrote about that back in 2005: https://www.sitepoint.com/2005-the-year-of-the-dom/ https://www.sitepoint.com/2005-the-year-of-the-dom/

wiseowise 3y ago

> Or maybe the junior engineers grew up with JavaScript, loved it, and have been driving the actual seniors who grew up with strict typing and predictable behavior insane. What the hell are you even talking about? > I would not be surprised if JavaScript gets the reputation of 2012 PHP in a decade. What year are you from? JavaScript already passed that stage with ES6.

jokethrowaway 3y ago

I feel 2012 PHP is the perfect description for JS reputation today and I've been working in companies where they do node.js as main backend tech since 2011 and react since 2015. I think it's the result of a mix of clunky tooling (started with transpiling), OSS maintainers who stopped caring and left a broken mess everywhere and lack of static typing (+ dissatisfaction with TS, despite it being the only sensible option for types), the diffusion of JS in uncool corporate workplaces. I still think both PHP (which I've used extensively between 2006-2011) and JS are fine languages with a few defects.

gjsman-1000 3y ago
I also mean it in the sense of 10 years from now. In 10 years, who is going to want to open up that unmaintained enterprise NodeJS project running on now-ancient Angular or React? Heck, what if it used Vue 2? It’s probably going to be worse than what editing a decade-old PHP project feels like now. That’s if it even builds with just one year of no maintenance. At least the PHP project didn’t rely on packages as simple as leftpad or is-odd.
dep_b 3y ago
Your vanilla PHP will still work in 10 years, with a few deprecation fixes. And since vanilla PHP is such a full-featured language and framework, you don't those third party dependencies.

bilalq 3y ago

In 2012, PHP was already going through a renaissance. PHP 5.4 had come out with massive improvements and the release cycle for updates was accelerated. Composer and Laravel were released and people were not only building real apps with PHP like they always did, but they now had much better tooling, language features, and a more thriving ecosystem. I expect JS/TS's reputation to only grow more favorable over time. The pragmatic path of its evolution and the resources invested into improving it over the years have really made it shine.