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This one is real: > Expectation: Once I become a senior, I will lead big projects, have a big impact, and tell others what to do! > Reality: I miss the time

by jitl 3y ago

This one is real: > Expectation: Once I become a senior, I will lead big projects, have a big impact, and tell others what to do! > Reality: I miss the times when people told me what to do. I’m very happy that I can just write code and do what I’m told on my current project — blessed with very strong collaborators. Being tech lead shaped person on a team and training/onboarding everyone is rewarding but draining, and it’s good to find ways to change it up.

pavel_lishin 3y ago
Yep. Whenever I'm leading a project, I try to leave myself something to actually do, so I can spend time doing the thing I actually enjoy doing.
- Longhanks 3y ago
  Why do you lead projects if you don't enjoy doing it?
  - cebert 3y ago
    I’d imagine compensation comes into play. Why do so many software engineers go into management?
    - usrusr 3y ago
      Compensation not only in terms of getting more, but also in terms of keeping it from dropping off. Good luck fending off ageism if you don't shift into more managerial roles.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jitl 3y ago
    I do a bunch of stuff I don’t enjoy because it makes my life better in the long run. For example: laundry, if I don’t do it, then I have to wear dirty clothes and I am sad (and smelly). So it goes with engineering too. Sometimes (often?) I need to do something that’s not enjoyable in the short term to realize the best long path.
  - callalex 3y ago
    The insane cost of housing, mostly.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    I enjoy some parts of it, but writing code is what makes me happiest - and I don't get to do as much of that on my own time as I'd prefer. And as others pointed out, because if I refuse to, I'd likely eventually be let go.
manicennui 3y ago
The other side of this is that it is exhausting having to constantly tell most people on the team what to do.
- kaashif 3y ago
  Ideally juniors will eventually grow to a point where you don't have to constantly tell them what to do. Early career people just don't know how to make the right decisions yet. They need mentorship and help, that's expected and I'm happy to help as long as they're learning. I hate it when I have to hold the hands of "seniors" though - often asking "what do you think?" or "what have you tried so far?" is enough to get them to do their jobs.
  - manicennui 3y ago
    I haven't found seniority to matter. People who are self-directed tend to be early on. In the corporate world these people are rare though.
eyelidlessness 3y ago
I probably never had the expectation expressed here, but the reality as a senior (as I see it) is “everyone has opinions on what to do, now it’s my job to corral them into something productive like so many cats”. If anything, I think the biggest difference between my prior expectation and my reality is how much more social than technical the responsibility can be.
- convolvatron 3y ago
  its socio-technical. you have to balance the legitimate desire to leave people agency, but get them all on the same page. people don't like it these days, but consensus does wonders. what _is_ purely social and hasn't been discussed here is the role a senior developer takes in shielding the team from organizational corruption. that's a much harder and painful task, and while the former gets easier as the team develops trust, the latter never seems to
not_alexb 3y ago
It's wild how different experiences can be. Even as an intern I appreciated not being told what to do far more often than the opposite (and other managers definitely appreciated that within the organization; they tried to poach me a few times).
usrusr 3y ago
I believe the sweet spot is a balance between coordination and autonomy. When I'm all alone with my decisions I trust them much less than after having gone through advertising them to peers, perhaps even refining them in the process. The rubber duck may be wise, for a duck at least, but there are limits to how much you can trust its opinion. In fact even the rubber duck appears more confident when it might at any time ally with co-workers.
fabianholzer 3y ago
> I’m very happy that I can just write code and do what I’m told on my current project In recent times I had two encounters with colleagues, one a being bit less and the other than quite a bit more senior than me, where they both expressed such a sentiment. One phrasing used was "I follow the ticket like a slave" and the other phrasing was "I do whatever $BOSS tells me to do". Not once in my career would I have uttered something like that. But I realize that I was lucky that in my early career I got a lot of rather ambiguous (and also ambitious) tasks paired with more autonomy than my actual experience justified. Don't know how I would have turned out as an engineer if I had started in a company where I would have been expected to simply do what I've been told.

by jitl 3y ago

pavel_lishin 3y ago

Yep. Whenever I'm leading a project, I try to leave myself something to actually do, so I can spend time doing the thing I actually enjoy doing.

Longhanks 3y ago
Why do you lead projects if you don't enjoy doing it?
- cebert 3y ago
  I’d imagine compensation comes into play. Why do so many software engineers go into management?
  - usrusr 3y ago
    Compensation not only in terms of getting more, but also in terms of keeping it from dropping off. Good luck fending off ageism if you don't shift into more managerial roles.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jitl 3y ago
  I do a bunch of stuff I don’t enjoy because it makes my life better in the long run. For example: laundry, if I don’t do it, then I have to wear dirty clothes and I am sad (and smelly). So it goes with engineering too. Sometimes (often?) I need to do something that’s not enjoyable in the short term to realize the best long path.
- callalex 3y ago
  The insane cost of housing, mostly.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  I enjoy some parts of it, but writing code is what makes me happiest - and I don't get to do as much of that on my own time as I'd prefer. And as others pointed out, because if I refuse to, I'd likely eventually be let go.

manicennui 3y ago

The other side of this is that it is exhausting having to constantly tell most people on the team what to do.

kaashif 3y ago
Ideally juniors will eventually grow to a point where you don't have to constantly tell them what to do. Early career people just don't know how to make the right decisions yet. They need mentorship and help, that's expected and I'm happy to help as long as they're learning. I hate it when I have to hold the hands of "seniors" though - often asking "what do you think?" or "what have you tried so far?" is enough to get them to do their jobs.
- manicennui 3y ago
  I haven't found seniority to matter. People who are self-directed tend to be early on. In the corporate world these people are rare though.

eyelidlessness 3y ago

I probably never had the expectation expressed here, but the reality as a senior (as I see it) is “everyone has opinions on what to do, now it’s my job to corral them into something productive like so many cats”. If anything, I think the biggest difference between my prior expectation and my reality is how much more social than technical the responsibility can be.

convolvatron 3y ago
its socio-technical. you have to balance the legitimate desire to leave people agency, but get them all on the same page. people don't like it these days, but consensus does wonders. what _is_ purely social and hasn't been discussed here is the role a senior developer takes in shielding the team from organizational corruption. that's a much harder and painful task, and while the former gets easier as the team develops trust, the latter never seems to

not_alexb 3y ago

It's wild how different experiences can be. Even as an intern I appreciated not being told what to do far more often than the opposite (and other managers definitely appreciated that within the organization; they tried to poach me a few times).

usrusr 3y ago

I believe the sweet spot is a balance between coordination and autonomy. When I'm all alone with my decisions I trust them much less than after having gone through advertising them to peers, perhaps even refining them in the process. The rubber duck may be wise, for a duck at least, but there are limits to how much you can trust its opinion. In fact even the rubber duck appears more confident when it might at any time ally with co-workers.

fabianholzer 3y ago

> I’m very happy that I can just write code and do what I’m told on my current project In recent times I had two encounters with colleagues, one a being bit less and the other than quite a bit more senior than me, where they both expressed such a sentiment. One phrasing used was "I follow the ticket like a slave" and the other phrasing was "I do whatever $BOSS tells me to do". Not once in my career would I have uttered something like that. But I realize that I was lucky that in my early career I got a lot of rather ambiguous (and also ambitious) tasks paired with more autonomy than my actual experience justified. Don't know how I would have turned out as an engineer if I had started in a company where I would have been expected to simply do what I've been told.