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Yes, this was always where things were going to end up. It was completely predictable. All those foreign companies with local partnerships are going to be very

Yes, this was always where things were going to end up. It was completely predictable. All those foreign companies with local partnerships are going to be very sad. Thanks for the money and education, yankees, go home now. And they have critical mass now, so it accelerates every time the west closes off some of our technology to them. What did American executives think was going to happen when they got involved with a communist dictatorship on the dictatorship’s terms? (Rhetorical question; they were greedy and wanted short-term profit above all else.)

FooBarWidget 3y ago
Predictable? In the old days people were yelling left and right that Chinese can't make advanced technology. Then they yelled that they can only copy. Even today many people (including in this very HN thread even...) are still saying that Chinese can only copy and can't possibly make real advanced stuff. China was in fact contend with the deal of being so far behind in semiconductors as long as they can import them. They could have invested even more in domestic semiconductor development, but chose not to because they assumed that they could just import what they wanted. 10 years ago, the Chinese govt set a target to produce 70% semiconductors domestically, but the Chinese industry didn't cooperate at all because of how easy and cost-efficient it was to import. With these sanctions, they now face an existential threat and thus they must progress. Yes maybe that comes with some spying and copying, but it seems ludicrous to me to focus so much on it. You deprive a person from his source of food and then when, out of desperation, he starts to steal, you complain about his bad morals? That outcome should be the more predictable one.
- hakfoo 3y ago
  We don't even need to get into "desperation" arguments. I support their efforts to copy and extend 100%. Western states deserve to have their asses handed to them on this. This was a double-whammy of stupid assumptions: that the rest of the world-- with different backgrounds and needs-- would forever accept the "let's legislate that water runs uphill" IP narrative, and that other countries were willing to remain trade vassals forever. If it takes industrial-scale Chinese copying to force technology to march forward, I'm all for it. I also love the tendency to cast this as moral argument-- "they're StEaLiNg our tech." If anyone is immoral in this situation, it's the IP holders. They're bottling up the very progress of mankind to ensure they can make their quarterly sacrifices to the almighty Market God, and we've just normalized it here. I hope that their attitude towards intellectual property gets ever laxer and shows us a new way forward.
AniseAbyss 3y ago
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FooBarWidget 3y ago

Predictable? In the old days people were yelling left and right that Chinese can't make advanced technology. Then they yelled that they can only copy. Even today many people (including in this very HN thread even...) are still saying that Chinese can only copy and can't possibly make real advanced stuff. China was in fact contend with the deal of being so far behind in semiconductors as long as they can import them. They could have invested even more in domestic semiconductor development, but chose not to because they assumed that they could just import what they wanted. 10 years ago, the Chinese govt set a target to produce 70% semiconductors domestically, but the Chinese industry didn't cooperate at all because of how easy and cost-efficient it was to import. With these sanctions, they now face an existential threat and thus they must progress. Yes maybe that comes with some spying and copying, but it seems ludicrous to me to focus so much on it. You deprive a person from his source of food and then when, out of desperation, he starts to steal, you complain about his bad morals? That outcome should be the more predictable one.

hakfoo 3y ago
We don't even need to get into "desperation" arguments. I support their efforts to copy and extend 100%. Western states deserve to have their asses handed to them on this. This was a double-whammy of stupid assumptions: that the rest of the world-- with different backgrounds and needs-- would forever accept the "let's legislate that water runs uphill" IP narrative, and that other countries were willing to remain trade vassals forever. If it takes industrial-scale Chinese copying to force technology to march forward, I'm all for it. I also love the tendency to cast this as moral argument-- "they're StEaLiNg our tech." If anyone is immoral in this situation, it's the IP holders. They're bottling up the very progress of mankind to ensure they can make their quarterly sacrifices to the almighty Market God, and we've just normalized it here. I hope that their attitude towards intellectual property gets ever laxer and shows us a new way forward.

AniseAbyss 3y ago

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