5 ms·

Note that this is a development deal. The territory is still a part of Egypt. Bad headline

kurthr 3y ago
It's kind strange they used buy rather than develop. I do also wonder how access will be controlled to this area, because it doesn't have the look of something that has a lot of low cost housing.
- dylan604 3y ago
  I think this might be the first time in forever that I've read anything about development in the Middle East and low cost housing. It's all about decadence and the ridiculousness amounts of money involved
  - brianwawok 3y ago
    Not going to make the news here when UAE builds a 100 unit 1 bed apartment building. But the tallest building in the world, or a ski resort in the desert? Sign us up
    - freedomben 3y ago
      Right. There is of course plenty of low cost housing in the UAE, but it's not going to make the front page of HN when they open a new apartment complex. Dubai is definitely a high-cost-of-living with extravagance abound, but it's also helped to turn them into an international destination. Just Spending time in the Dubai airport is a fascinating experience if you get the change. It's the most diverse (and by that I don't mean skin color, though of course that is reflected, but I mean all types of different people from all over the world) environment I think I've ever been in.
      - chgs 3y ago
        Just try to avoid kissing your same sex partner in public.
        filoleg 3y ago
        > Just try to avoid kissing your same sex partner in public. Well, I don't do that with my opposite-sex partner in public in the US either, so I don't think it would be that difficult regardless of my partner's sex or the country I am in. Just to be clear, I am not a prude or a conservative/religious person, and I don't have an issue with others doing that. And neither am I afraid of something bad happening if I did that. I just tend to reserve activities that involve any amount of bodily fluids to non-public places. On a more relevant note, I don't see how your reply negates what the grandparent comment said. There is more to diversity than just sexual orientation. It is a component of it, of course. But you would be crazy to deny that it is still possible to have a room full of people with extremely diverse backgrounds and ways of life, despite none of them being into same-sex relationships.
        rafram 3y ago
        The parent comment refers to same-sex partners because gay foreigners have actually been arrested in the UAE for incredibly small offenses, like brushing against someone's hip at a bar [1]. And in Egypt for such crimes as waving a pride flag at a Mashrou' Leila concert [2]. It wasn't an attack against your heterosexuality - it's just a fact that gay people are especially persecuted in most of the Middle East. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jamie-harron-dubai-arrest-holiday-uae-hip-united-arab-emirates-laws-police-justice-a8015661.html https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jamie-harron-dubai-arre... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/egypt-mashrou-leila-gays-concert.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/egypt-ma...
        chgs 3y ago
        And it’s not just gay people. It’s illegal for a woman to be raped for example https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/dubai-alleged-gang-rape-victim-woman-arrested-united-arab-emirates-nightmare-ordeal-a7426421.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/dubai-a... And of course somewhat extreme responses to altercations https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/03/student-jailed-for-a-year-in-dubai-after-gently-touching-airport-official-19598723/ https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/03/student-jailed-for-a-year-in-... And don’t take any selfies https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/british-woman-jailed-dubai-selfies-hotel-brawl-asa-hutchinson-a8543586.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/british... Don’t drink wine on the flight there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/10/woman-held-in-dubai-with-daughter-for-drinking-glass-of-wine-on-flight https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/10/woman-held-in-... Maybe if you are a straight white rich man Dubai is great, other wise the entire Middle East is a risky place to travel through https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59288177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59288177
      - jq-r 3y ago
        > Just Spending time in the Dubai airport is a fascinating experience if you get the change. It depends on what you mean by fascinating. I was stuck in a limbo because on arrival they've lost my visa (which takes days to process). They didn't even wanted to talk to me because my visa wasn't in a pile of other visas and for those people that was the end of it. I wasn't let in into the country, and I couldn't board the plane to go back home. For what they were concerned, I could have died there in front of the counter and they wouldn't even bat an eye. It took them close to 10 hours to relent to my ever increasing desparate pleadings and second or third shift person to have a look at the other pile of visas on the same desk. They've found it after less than a minute of search, and threw it at me like I'm a trash bin. Needless to say I'm never going to Dubai ever again. I've travelled all over the world, but I've never seen or experienced complete disdan and disrespect for other people before and since then.
        csomar 3y ago
        Was this recent? I think they have mostly moved to eVisas now. That being said, what you described is a typical experience in a foreign country immigration lane. I am not saying it is right or wrong ( of course it is wrong!) but overall the uae is still ahead of many other countries when it comes to accessibility.
        jq-r 3y ago
        It was about 5 to 7 years ago. Time does fly! Its not a typical experience in my view. I've definitely seen and experienced crazy stuff over the years in the airports. But what was perfectly clear to me is that they (native people working there) don't see you as an equal. Its maybe a bit hard to explain. I wouldn't go as far as to say that they don't really see you as a person at all, but I've never experienced this before and after. And this is not something I've seen on myself only, I've seen this happen on non-EU/US immigration lanes and it was disturbing and depressing. Maybe I'm just too sensitive to that.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  I think it is because the deal probably includes all that land being sold to the UAE-led consortium (Egypt will have a 35% stake as I understand).
- tim333 3y ago
  It'll probably be something like El Gouna which is kind of a gated community within Egypt - wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Gouna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Gouna web https://www.elgouna.com/ https://www.elgouna.com/ Though maybe a bit more high rise and tacky.
rafram 3y ago
Sovereignty doesn’t mean that much when it isn’t enforced. It’s a popular approach in the Middle East these days - countries agree to build company towns where residents can essentially pretend they’re living in the West, sometimes with a parallel justice system, no expectation of modest dress, etc. Look at KAUST and Neom (if that ever happens) in Saudi Arabia, Abdali in Amman, the Green Zone in Baghdad. It keeps the rich expats living in your country happy without making you actually improve living conditions for everyone, including the native-born population. I fully expect that the Gulf expats who move to this development will be made to feel like they’re still living in the Gulf, the security/police will be private, and it’ll be designated a “free trade zone.”

It's kind strange they used buy rather than develop. I do also wonder how access will be controlled to this area, because it doesn't have the look of something that has a lot of low cost housing.

dylan604 3y ago
I think this might be the first time in forever that I've read anything about development in the Middle East and low cost housing. It's all about decadence and the ridiculousness amounts of money involved
- brianwawok 3y ago
  Not going to make the news here when UAE builds a 100 unit 1 bed apartment building. But the tallest building in the world, or a ski resort in the desert? Sign us up
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Right. There is of course plenty of low cost housing in the UAE, but it's not going to make the front page of HN when they open a new apartment complex. Dubai is definitely a high-cost-of-living with extravagance abound, but it's also helped to turn them into an international destination. Just Spending time in the Dubai airport is a fascinating experience if you get the change. It's the most diverse (and by that I don't mean skin color, though of course that is reflected, but I mean all types of different people from all over the world) environment I think I've ever been in.
    - chgs 3y ago
      Just try to avoid kissing your same sex partner in public.
      - filoleg 3y ago
        > Just try to avoid kissing your same sex partner in public. Well, I don't do that with my opposite-sex partner in public in the US either, so I don't think it would be that difficult regardless of my partner's sex or the country I am in. Just to be clear, I am not a prude or a conservative/religious person, and I don't have an issue with others doing that. And neither am I afraid of something bad happening if I did that. I just tend to reserve activities that involve any amount of bodily fluids to non-public places. On a more relevant note, I don't see how your reply negates what the grandparent comment said. There is more to diversity than just sexual orientation. It is a component of it, of course. But you would be crazy to deny that it is still possible to have a room full of people with extremely diverse backgrounds and ways of life, despite none of them being into same-sex relationships.
        rafram 3y ago
        The parent comment refers to same-sex partners because gay foreigners have actually been arrested in the UAE for incredibly small offenses, like brushing against someone's hip at a bar [1]. And in Egypt for such crimes as waving a pride flag at a Mashrou' Leila concert [2]. It wasn't an attack against your heterosexuality - it's just a fact that gay people are especially persecuted in most of the Middle East. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jamie-harron-dubai-arrest-holiday-uae-hip-united-arab-emirates-laws-police-justice-a8015661.html https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jamie-harron-dubai-arre... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/egypt-mashrou-leila-gays-concert.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/world/middleeast/egypt-ma...
        chgs 3y ago
        And it’s not just gay people. It’s illegal for a woman to be raped for example https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/dubai-alleged-gang-rape-victim-woman-arrested-united-arab-emirates-nightmare-ordeal-a7426421.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/dubai-a... And of course somewhat extreme responses to altercations https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/03/student-jailed-for-a-year-in-dubai-after-gently-touching-airport-official-19598723/ https://metro.co.uk/2023/10/03/student-jailed-for-a-year-in-... And don’t take any selfies https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/british-woman-jailed-dubai-selfies-hotel-brawl-asa-hutchinson-a8543586.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/british... Don’t drink wine on the flight there https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/10/woman-held-in-dubai-with-daughter-for-drinking-glass-of-wine-on-flight https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/10/woman-held-in-... Maybe if you are a straight white rich man Dubai is great, other wise the entire Middle East is a risky place to travel through https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59288177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59288177
    - jq-r 3y ago
      > Just Spending time in the Dubai airport is a fascinating experience if you get the change. It depends on what you mean by fascinating. I was stuck in a limbo because on arrival they've lost my visa (which takes days to process). They didn't even wanted to talk to me because my visa wasn't in a pile of other visas and for those people that was the end of it. I wasn't let in into the country, and I couldn't board the plane to go back home. For what they were concerned, I could have died there in front of the counter and they wouldn't even bat an eye. It took them close to 10 hours to relent to my ever increasing desparate pleadings and second or third shift person to have a look at the other pile of visas on the same desk. They've found it after less than a minute of search, and threw it at me like I'm a trash bin. Needless to say I'm never going to Dubai ever again. I've travelled all over the world, but I've never seen or experienced complete disdan and disrespect for other people before and since then.
      - csomar 3y ago
        Was this recent? I think they have mostly moved to eVisas now. That being said, what you described is a typical experience in a foreign country immigration lane. I am not saying it is right or wrong ( of course it is wrong!) but overall the uae is still ahead of many other countries when it comes to accessibility.
        jq-r 3y ago
        It was about 5 to 7 years ago. Time does fly! Its not a typical experience in my view. I've definitely seen and experienced crazy stuff over the years in the airports. But what was perfectly clear to me is that they (native people working there) don't see you as an equal. Its maybe a bit hard to explain. I wouldn't go as far as to say that they don't really see you as a person at all, but I've never experienced this before and after. And this is not something I've seen on myself only, I've seen this happen on non-EU/US immigration lanes and it was disturbing and depressing. Maybe I'm just too sensitive to that.
mytailorisrich 3y ago
I think it is because the deal probably includes all that land being sold to the UAE-led consortium (Egypt will have a 35% stake as I understand).
tim333 3y ago
It'll probably be something like El Gouna which is kind of a gated community within Egypt - wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Gouna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Gouna web https://www.elgouna.com/ https://www.elgouna.com/ Though maybe a bit more high rise and tacky.

rafram 3y ago

Sovereignty doesn’t mean that much when it isn’t enforced. It’s a popular approach in the Middle East these days - countries agree to build company towns where residents can essentially pretend they’re living in the West, sometimes with a parallel justice system, no expectation of modest dress, etc. Look at KAUST and Neom (if that ever happens) in Saudi Arabia, Abdali in Amman, the Green Zone in Baghdad. It keeps the rich expats living in your country happy without making you actually improve living conditions for everyone, including the native-born population. I fully expect that the Gulf expats who move to this development will be made to feel like they’re still living in the Gulf, the security/police will be private, and it’ll be designated a “free trade zone.”