3 ms·

I think at this point we kinda have to give up most if not all of the "weird" animals that exists today. We can only pick them or the modern lifestyle. Let's t

I think at this point we kinda have to give up most if not all of the "weird" animals that exists today. We can only pick them or the modern lifestyle. Let's think of what people will commonly refer to as a "best case scenario": World peace and equality. Are you kidding me? Think of yourself, and the lifestyle that you have. And multiply that by 8 billion people. There's simply no way for the environment to survive that considering only a fraction of extremely lucky (relatively speaking) individual will ever read this comment. Your lifestyle, right now, is not sustainable. That is not to say that corporations and lots of other big players are not responsible. But we have to be realistic.

cloogshicer 3y ago
Genuine question: Assuming that humanity would cooperate perfectly, what would the lifestyle we can afford actually look like? Can we afford food and heat for everyone? Electricity? Where is the line?
- adrianN 3y ago
  Renewable energy if both cheap and abundant. Energy is not the problem. We just need to replace two centuries of fossil infrastructure in the next two decades
michpoch 3y ago
> Your lifestyle, right now, is not sustainable. That's quite a statement, mind to expand? Should I start walking around naked and sleep in a cave, or is it enough that I'll be eating raw vegan food? I live a pretty regular life and I do not see why it'd not be sustainable.
- Arch485 3y ago
  I'm going off the assumption that you're an average-ish suburban american, so if you're not that, then this doesn't count... Cars use fossil fuels to run, and rare metals to be manufactured. These are inherently limited, thereby making our lifestyle unsustainable already (I say "our" because I am also an average-ish suburban american). Phones, computers, tablets, etc. etc. use rare metals in production, and last a relatively short period (5 years if you're lucky, at least ime). Also unsustainable. A lot of electricity is generated using fossil fuels. Many foods (not just meat - a lot of fruits and vegetables too) are produced in an unsustainable way. This is not to say they cannot be produced sustainably, but commonly they are not. As an example, factory farms harvesting beef are terrible for the environment, the cows, and your health. Many vegetable farms use fertilizers that are bad for the environment, but arguably necessary to sustain enough food for the human population. Luckily, you don't need to walk around naked and sleep in a cave. You can reduce your negative impact on the world and disconnect from a lot of the unsustainable practices and systems we have in modern society by buying your own property and living mostly off-grid (i.e., generating your own solar electricity, growing your own food, etc.). You don't even have to give up running water or the internet! The benefits snowball if you do this as a community, too. While many aspects of this lifestyle are still unsustainable (for example, solar panels need rare metals), it is _much more_ sustainable than the de-facto standard of society we have today. Now I'm not saying that you (or anyone) should feel morally obligated to do something like this - it's not a possibility for many people, for one reason or another. However, the more people who do it, the better!
  - michpoch 3y ago
    > I'm going off the assumption that you're an average-ish suburban american, so if you're not that, then this doesn't count... Well, I am not. That is not an "average" person at all, how many people in the world would that be, 5%? > Cars use fossil fuels to run, and rare metals to be manufactured. These are inherently limited, thereby making our lifestyle unsustainable already Ok, so we need to step-up recycling and run EVs or CO2-neutral fuels. That's not that far. > Phones, computers, tablets, etc. etc. use rare metals in production, and last a relatively short period (5 years if you're lucky, at least ime). Also unsustainable. I believe we're already pretty good at recycling these? It's also not that large amount, maybe 10 phones and 10 computers per person per lifetime? > A lot of electricity is generated using fossil fuels. That's not a lifestyle problem, more of technological problem. It all sounds like a matter of progressing further and expanding on what we're already doing. I imagine the sub-urban lifestyle would be something that needs to change, but it's such a corner case that in the global scale it won't matter that much.
- adrianN 3y ago
  Are you serious? A pretty normal live depends on mountains of non-renewable resources. There are no simple fixes to this problem, but that does not make it less of a problem

cloogshicer 3y ago

Genuine question: Assuming that humanity would cooperate perfectly, what would the lifestyle we can afford actually look like? Can we afford food and heat for everyone? Electricity? Where is the line?

adrianN 3y ago
Renewable energy if both cheap and abundant. Energy is not the problem. We just need to replace two centuries of fossil infrastructure in the next two decades

michpoch 3y ago

> Your lifestyle, right now, is not sustainable. That's quite a statement, mind to expand? Should I start walking around naked and sleep in a cave, or is it enough that I'll be eating raw vegan food? I live a pretty regular life and I do not see why it'd not be sustainable.

Arch485 3y ago
I'm going off the assumption that you're an average-ish suburban american, so if you're not that, then this doesn't count... Cars use fossil fuels to run, and rare metals to be manufactured. These are inherently limited, thereby making our lifestyle unsustainable already (I say "our" because I am also an average-ish suburban american). Phones, computers, tablets, etc. etc. use rare metals in production, and last a relatively short period (5 years if you're lucky, at least ime). Also unsustainable. A lot of electricity is generated using fossil fuels. Many foods (not just meat - a lot of fruits and vegetables too) are produced in an unsustainable way. This is not to say they cannot be produced sustainably, but commonly they are not. As an example, factory farms harvesting beef are terrible for the environment, the cows, and your health. Many vegetable farms use fertilizers that are bad for the environment, but arguably necessary to sustain enough food for the human population. Luckily, you don't need to walk around naked and sleep in a cave. You can reduce your negative impact on the world and disconnect from a lot of the unsustainable practices and systems we have in modern society by buying your own property and living mostly off-grid (i.e., generating your own solar electricity, growing your own food, etc.). You don't even have to give up running water or the internet! The benefits snowball if you do this as a community, too. While many aspects of this lifestyle are still unsustainable (for example, solar panels need rare metals), it is _much more_ sustainable than the de-facto standard of society we have today. Now I'm not saying that you (or anyone) should feel morally obligated to do something like this - it's not a possibility for many people, for one reason or another. However, the more people who do it, the better!
- michpoch 3y ago
  > I'm going off the assumption that you're an average-ish suburban american, so if you're not that, then this doesn't count... Well, I am not. That is not an "average" person at all, how many people in the world would that be, 5%? > Cars use fossil fuels to run, and rare metals to be manufactured. These are inherently limited, thereby making our lifestyle unsustainable already Ok, so we need to step-up recycling and run EVs or CO2-neutral fuels. That's not that far. > Phones, computers, tablets, etc. etc. use rare metals in production, and last a relatively short period (5 years if you're lucky, at least ime). Also unsustainable. I believe we're already pretty good at recycling these? It's also not that large amount, maybe 10 phones and 10 computers per person per lifetime? > A lot of electricity is generated using fossil fuels. That's not a lifestyle problem, more of technological problem. It all sounds like a matter of progressing further and expanding on what we're already doing. I imagine the sub-urban lifestyle would be something that needs to change, but it's such a corner case that in the global scale it won't matter that much.
adrianN 3y ago
Are you serious? A pretty normal live depends on mountains of non-renewable resources. There are no simple fixes to this problem, but that does not make it less of a problem