3 ms·

i am not talking about neo kahanists. i am talking about jews in general. and lets say samaritans. can they exercise right to self determination ?

by tguvot 3y ago

runarberg 3y ago
> The Samaritans (/səˈmærɪtənz/; Samaritan Hebrew: ࠔࠠࠌࠝࠓࠩࠉࠌ‎ Šā̊merīm; Hebrew: שומרונים Šōmrōnīm; Arabic: السامريون as-Sāmiriyyūn), or the Samaritan people, are an ethnoreligious group originating from the Hebrews and Israelites of the ancient Near East.[2] They are indigenous to Samaria, a historical region of ancient Israel and Judah that comprises the northern half of today's West Bank. They are naturally adherents of Samaritanism, an Abrahamic, monotheistic, and ethnic religion that developed alongside Judaism, although the two differ in a number of important aspects in spite of sharing a common foundation in Yahwism. > As of 2022, the Samaritan community is estimated to number around 874 people, split almost evenly between Israel (some 460 in Holon) and the Israeli-occupied West Bank (some 380 in Kiryat Luza). > All Samaritans in both Holon and Kiryat Luza are Israeli citizens, but those in Kiryat Luza also hold Palestinian citizenship. > Much of the local Palestinian population of Nablus is believed to be descended from Samaritans who converted to Islam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans Sorry, but I don’t think you are talking about the Samaritans. And if you are, they are totally irrelevant to our conversation. But the short answer would be, they should have the rights of an indigenous or a religious minority within a broader region.
- tguvot 3y ago
  yes, i am talking about samaritans who live in samaria. can you explain why they have right of minority but not right to self determination as palestinians ? according to un this right is universal for all people.
tptacek 3y ago
Not in the West Bank, which is outside the 1967 boundaries of the state of Israel and is the homeland of the Palestinian people, who have a right to self-determination within their own land.
- tguvot 3y ago
  samaritans live continuously in samaria for 2000+ years. it's their homeland. jews live continuously in samaria and judea for 2000+ years (with some pause in 1948-1967 when they were ethnically cleansed by jordans. it's their homeland as well. so how is that in your only palestinians can do it ? is the right of self determination does not apply to samaritans and jews, only to palestinians ? un charter on self determination or other treaties that i referenced says nothing about location of self determination, btw. there is only right to self determination. not to land. not to state.
  - ignoramous 3y ago
    > samaritans live continuously in samaria for 2000+ years. Home land of both the peoples, then? Looking more like a one-state reality to me.
    - runarberg 3y ago
      I stopped engaging with your parent because they were not arguing in good faith. The post you were replying to is an example of Motte-and-bailey fallacy. The only reason they are talking about the Samaritans is because they failed argue that West Bank Settlers have any right to the land, so they turned to the much more reasonable argument that an indigenous religious minority should have rights as a group. Note that this etno-religious minority numbers fewer than a 1000 people, only about 400 live in the occupied West Bank (and honestly, I haven’t asked them, but I would be very surprised if they were happy with the occupation). It is obvious from the early points that parent was arguing for something with much grander stakes than this tiny minority. Not only that but your parent explicitly mentioned Jewish people earlier (obviously referring to illegal settlers), while from what I know about the Samaritan minority is that their religion related to Judaism while still distinct, so I question whether it is actually accurate to refer to them as Jewish. In other threads your parent actually crossed the line and started attacking me as a person. Wrongly claiming my position is pro-colonial https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39497508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39497508 Which kind of feels like the poster is trying to Kafkatrap[1] me. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#[[wikt:Kafkatrapping|Kafkatrapping] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#[[wikt:Kafka...]

i am not talking about neo kahanists. i am talking about jews in general. and lets say samaritans. can they exercise right to self determination ?

by tguvot 3y ago

i am not talking about neo kahanists. i am talking about jews in general. and lets say samaritans. can they exercise right to self determination ?

runarberg 3y ago

> The Samaritans (/səˈmærɪtənz/; Samaritan Hebrew: ࠔࠠࠌࠝࠓࠩࠉࠌ‎ Šā̊merīm; Hebrew: שומרונים Šōmrōnīm; Arabic: السامريون as-Sāmiriyyūn), or the Samaritan people, are an ethnoreligious group originating from the Hebrews and Israelites of the ancient Near East.[2] They are indigenous to Samaria, a historical region of ancient Israel and Judah that comprises the northern half of today's West Bank. They are naturally adherents of Samaritanism, an Abrahamic, monotheistic, and ethnic religion that developed alongside Judaism, although the two differ in a number of important aspects in spite of sharing a common foundation in Yahwism. > As of 2022, the Samaritan community is estimated to number around 874 people, split almost evenly between Israel (some 460 in Holon) and the Israeli-occupied West Bank (some 380 in Kiryat Luza). > All Samaritans in both Holon and Kiryat Luza are Israeli citizens, but those in Kiryat Luza also hold Palestinian citizenship. > Much of the local Palestinian population of Nablus is believed to be descended from Samaritans who converted to Islam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans Sorry, but I don’t think you are talking about the Samaritans. And if you are, they are totally irrelevant to our conversation. But the short answer would be, they should have the rights of an indigenous or a religious minority within a broader region.

tguvot 3y ago
yes, i am talking about samaritans who live in samaria. can you explain why they have right of minority but not right to self determination as palestinians ? according to un this right is universal for all people.

tptacek 3y ago

Not in the West Bank, which is outside the 1967 boundaries of the state of Israel and is the homeland of the Palestinian people, who have a right to self-determination within their own land.

tguvot 3y ago
samaritans live continuously in samaria for 2000+ years. it's their homeland. jews live continuously in samaria and judea for 2000+ years (with some pause in 1948-1967 when they were ethnically cleansed by jordans. it's their homeland as well. so how is that in your only palestinians can do it ? is the right of self determination does not apply to samaritans and jews, only to palestinians ? un charter on self determination or other treaties that i referenced says nothing about location of self determination, btw. there is only right to self determination. not to land. not to state.
- ignoramous 3y ago
  > samaritans live continuously in samaria for 2000+ years. Home land of both the peoples, then? Looking more like a one-state reality to me.
  - runarberg 3y ago
    I stopped engaging with your parent because they were not arguing in good faith. The post you were replying to is an example of Motte-and-bailey fallacy. The only reason they are talking about the Samaritans is because they failed argue that West Bank Settlers have any right to the land, so they turned to the much more reasonable argument that an indigenous religious minority should have rights as a group. Note that this etno-religious minority numbers fewer than a 1000 people, only about 400 live in the occupied West Bank (and honestly, I haven’t asked them, but I would be very surprised if they were happy with the occupation). It is obvious from the early points that parent was arguing for something with much grander stakes than this tiny minority. Not only that but your parent explicitly mentioned Jewish people earlier (obviously referring to illegal settlers), while from what I know about the Samaritan minority is that their religion related to Judaism while still distinct, so I question whether it is actually accurate to refer to them as Jewish. In other threads your parent actually crossed the line and started attacking me as a person. Wrongly claiming my position is pro-colonial https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39497508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39497508 Which kind of feels like the poster is trying to Kafkatrap[1] me. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#[[wikt:Kafkatrapping|Kafkatrapping] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#[[wikt:Kafka...]