5 ms·

Proposition E and Why San Francisco Voters Should Oppose It

32 points by blintz 3y ago

blintz 3y ago
This measure has over $1 million is spending in favor of it, the most of any measure on the March ballot; several of the folks spending in favor of it are people in our industry (the CEO of Ripple has given $250k alone). Apparently, supporters have outspent opponents almost 10 to 1 (https://sfstandard.com/2024/01/22/london-breed-prop-e-san-francisco-police-fundraising/ https://sfstandard.com/2024/01/22/london-breed-prop-e-san-fr...). I hope the statements from the EFF and ACLU, which have both highlighted the negative privacy implications of the measure, help convince folks to vote no.
- adastra22 3y ago
  Ripple is not my industry, lol
goodSteveramos 3y ago
Facial recognition is not a substitute for the thousands of cops who quit in the wake of the Derick Chovin conviction. Say what you will about the merits of that prosecution, but the message cops themselves got was that if they actually do their job and arrest criminals, there is a chance that a politicized mob could send them to prison for the rest of their lives. The effect that had on police moral has been devastating and criminals have taken full advantage.
- huytersd 3y ago
  Being a cop is a high paying, low barrier to entry position. If cops quit because they want to stand in support of a convicted murderer then they definitely don’t belong in the force. Morale has nothing to do with doing your job, that sorry ass excuse wouldn’t work in any other job. The police union is a cause for most of these problems, they artificially restrict who can join the force. It needs to be dissolved and cops should be hired like a regular job, with clearances and training requirements.
  - goodSteveramos 3y ago
    >If cops quit because they want to stand in support of a convicted murderer then they definitely don’t belong in the force. Its not that they are quitting to “stand in support” of Derik Chovin, they are quitting because they dont want themselves personally to end up like Chovin. How do unions stop quality people from becoming cops?
    - SmellTheGlove 3y ago
      It’s actually pretty easy to not end up like Chauvin. You don’t even have to quit. You just gotta decide you’re not gonna put your knee on someone’s neck for a few minutes after you’ve already subdued him.
      - goodSteveramos 3y ago
        Are you a cop? Thats great that you think Chovin was innocent. Cops disagree and thats why lots of them quit after that
        huytersd 3y ago
        He was convicted. Good riddance to the cops that quit after that, that’s perfect.
        SmellTheGlove 3y ago
        Re-read my comment. I do not think Chauvin was innocent. (nor am I a cop)
        goodSteveramos 3y ago
        Sorry i meant to say that you think he’s guilty. And if you’re not a cop, who’s word are you taking that it’s easy to “not end up like Chovin”?
    - kstenerud 3y ago
      > How do unions stop quality people from becoming cops? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_unions_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_unions_in_the_United_St...
- standardUser 3y ago
  Crime rates are generally down since the pandemic-era spike and are still extremely low compared to the norms of the 80's and 90's. And frankly, if anyone deserves credit for creating an "us vs them" mentality between citizens and the police, it's the police. Dating back at least as far as the start of the drug war.
  - goodSteveramos 3y ago
    Calling crime in the 80’s and 90’s a “norm” is quite the soft on crime position you have there and no, crime is still much higher than it was before the derik chovin conviction. Im not sure why you are bringing up covid in this context
    - kstenerud 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
    - sethherr 3y ago
      Why do you think crime is up?
    - standardUser 3y ago
      Crime spiked during the pandemic. Everyone knows this. Now it is down. They're called facts and you can look them up for free on the non-alt-right internet.
- DinaCoder99 3y ago
  We outspend all other countries on policing by a wide margin. I think we'll be ok with a few thousand fewer cops (and no facial recognition).
- SmellTheGlove 3y ago
  > but the message cops themselves got was that if they actually do their job and arrest criminals, there is a chance that a politicized mob could send them to prison for the rest of their lives That’s the message? You know That cop killed a guy right? Suffocated him. On camera. If he just did his job and arrested him the politicized mob wouldn’t have put him behind bars. But the problem is he killed that guy, and it wasn’t some freak momentary lapse. He suffocated him. If cops are quitting because they’re worried they might go to jail for killing a completely incapacitated individual in a very deliberate manner, they might be doing society a favor.
- sundaeofshock 3y ago
  The “mob” didn’t go after Chauvin for doing his job; they went after him for chocking the life out of a man over the course of nine minutes. Any cop who has low morale because of the Chauvin convection shouldn’t be a cop.
- quickslowdown 3y ago
  Cops don't get a license for public executions. I appreciate your pearl clutching, but reject your premise on its face.
daseiner1 3y ago
there’s a rather obvious reason that predictive policing is “racist”, “biased”, “discriminatory”.
- temptemptemp111 3y ago
  [dead]
crq-yml 3y ago
SFPD no longer polices traffic. They have offered various excuses for why, but the fact is, citations are down over 90% from 2014. Anyone who stands by a busy intersection in SF during rush hour will see dozens of violations. I have no interest in expanding the power of the police force if they cannot make progress on this issue. In fact, I would move to relieve them of traffic duty, if this is the kind of result they are getting. [0] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article/sfpd-traffic-tickets-17355651.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article... [1] https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-traffic-citations-pedestrian-fatalities-sfpd-staffing-shortage-supervisor-rafael-mandelman/13840929/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-traffic-citations-pedestr... [2] https://missionlocal.org/2024/02/sf-police-union-declares-impasse-pretext-stop/ https://missionlocal.org/2024/02/sf-police-union-declares-im...
- rKarpinski 3y ago
  TIL Hamsterdam also legalized traffic violations
rKarpinski 3y ago
TLDR: It would give more power to the police department.

32 points by blintz 3y ago

This measure has over $1 million is spending in favor of it, the most of any measure on the March ballot; several of the folks spending in favor of it are people in our industry (the CEO of Ripple has given $250k alone). Apparently, supporters have outspent opponents almost 10 to 1 (https://sfstandard.com/2024/01/22/london-breed-prop-e-san-francisco-police-fundraising/ https://sfstandard.com/2024/01/22/london-breed-prop-e-san-fr...). I hope the statements from the EFF and ACLU, which have both highlighted the negative privacy implications of the measure, help convince folks to vote no.

adastra22 3y ago
Ripple is not my industry, lol

goodSteveramos 3y ago

Facial recognition is not a substitute for the thousands of cops who quit in the wake of the Derick Chovin conviction. Say what you will about the merits of that prosecution, but the message cops themselves got was that if they actually do their job and arrest criminals, there is a chance that a politicized mob could send them to prison for the rest of their lives. The effect that had on police moral has been devastating and criminals have taken full advantage.

huytersd 3y ago
Being a cop is a high paying, low barrier to entry position. If cops quit because they want to stand in support of a convicted murderer then they definitely don’t belong in the force. Morale has nothing to do with doing your job, that sorry ass excuse wouldn’t work in any other job. The police union is a cause for most of these problems, they artificially restrict who can join the force. It needs to be dissolved and cops should be hired like a regular job, with clearances and training requirements.
- goodSteveramos 3y ago
  >If cops quit because they want to stand in support of a convicted murderer then they definitely don’t belong in the force. Its not that they are quitting to “stand in support” of Derik Chovin, they are quitting because they dont want themselves personally to end up like Chovin. How do unions stop quality people from becoming cops?
  - SmellTheGlove 3y ago
    It’s actually pretty easy to not end up like Chauvin. You don’t even have to quit. You just gotta decide you’re not gonna put your knee on someone’s neck for a few minutes after you’ve already subdued him.
    - goodSteveramos 3y ago
      Are you a cop? Thats great that you think Chovin was innocent. Cops disagree and thats why lots of them quit after that
      - huytersd 3y ago
        He was convicted. Good riddance to the cops that quit after that, that’s perfect.
      - SmellTheGlove 3y ago
        Re-read my comment. I do not think Chauvin was innocent. (nor am I a cop)
        goodSteveramos 3y ago
        Sorry i meant to say that you think he’s guilty. And if you’re not a cop, who’s word are you taking that it’s easy to “not end up like Chovin”?
  - kstenerud 3y ago
    > How do unions stop quality people from becoming cops? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_unions_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_unions_in_the_United_St...
standardUser 3y ago
Crime rates are generally down since the pandemic-era spike and are still extremely low compared to the norms of the 80's and 90's. And frankly, if anyone deserves credit for creating an "us vs them" mentality between citizens and the police, it's the police. Dating back at least as far as the start of the drug war.
- goodSteveramos 3y ago
  Calling crime in the 80’s and 90’s a “norm” is quite the soft on crime position you have there and no, crime is still much higher than it was before the derik chovin conviction. Im not sure why you are bringing up covid in this context
  - kstenerud 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
  - sethherr 3y ago
    Why do you think crime is up?
  - standardUser 3y ago
    Crime spiked during the pandemic. Everyone knows this. Now it is down. They're called facts and you can look them up for free on the non-alt-right internet.
DinaCoder99 3y ago
We outspend all other countries on policing by a wide margin. I think we'll be ok with a few thousand fewer cops (and no facial recognition).
SmellTheGlove 3y ago
> but the message cops themselves got was that if they actually do their job and arrest criminals, there is a chance that a politicized mob could send them to prison for the rest of their lives That’s the message? You know That cop killed a guy right? Suffocated him. On camera. If he just did his job and arrested him the politicized mob wouldn’t have put him behind bars. But the problem is he killed that guy, and it wasn’t some freak momentary lapse. He suffocated him. If cops are quitting because they’re worried they might go to jail for killing a completely incapacitated individual in a very deliberate manner, they might be doing society a favor.
sundaeofshock 3y ago
The “mob” didn’t go after Chauvin for doing his job; they went after him for chocking the life out of a man over the course of nine minutes. Any cop who has low morale because of the Chauvin convection shouldn’t be a cop.
quickslowdown 3y ago
Cops don't get a license for public executions. I appreciate your pearl clutching, but reject your premise on its face.

daseiner1 3y ago

there’s a rather obvious reason that predictive policing is “racist”, “biased”, “discriminatory”.

temptemptemp111 3y ago
[dead]

crq-yml 3y ago

SFPD no longer polices traffic. They have offered various excuses for why, but the fact is, citations are down over 90% from 2014. Anyone who stands by a busy intersection in SF during rush hour will see dozens of violations. I have no interest in expanding the power of the police force if they cannot make progress on this issue. In fact, I would move to relieve them of traffic duty, if this is the kind of result they are getting. [0] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article/sfpd-traffic-tickets-17355651.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article... [1] https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-traffic-citations-pedestrian-fatalities-sfpd-staffing-shortage-supervisor-rafael-mandelman/13840929/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-traffic-citations-pedestr... [2] https://missionlocal.org/2024/02/sf-police-union-declares-impasse-pretext-stop/ https://missionlocal.org/2024/02/sf-police-union-declares-im...

rKarpinski 3y ago
TIL Hamsterdam also legalized traffic violations

rKarpinski 3y ago

TLDR: It would give more power to the police department.