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Both the cobra effect and the Hanoi rat massacre were government initiatives. They are mentioned in the article. This problem is utterly pervasive in governanc

Both the cobra effect and the Hanoi rat massacre were government initiatives. They are mentioned in the article. This problem is utterly pervasive in governance, in fact, has been for many generations.

crabmusket 3y ago
But neither are examples of the theorem the article is about. They were simply misleading. I don't actually doubt that the problem exists in government... But why not provide any actual examples of it? Just endlessly re-hashed stories from a hundred years ago?
- walterbell 3y ago
  Perhaps someone will forward this article to government employees or public sector organizational game theorists.
  - intended 3y ago
    There are most certainly some papers out there which look into the issue. The OP though, opened with a point on the rhetorics of the piece. As is usual, such conversations are tricky, evidence by this sub threads where we are discussing govt. Rhetoric is a pretty interesting topic.
hawthornio 3y ago
These examples are based around the idea of profit motive and these examples show a profit motive is rarely able to achieve the desired effect—these examples in no way speak to government agencies.
bruce511 3y ago
Neither were an example of the shirky effect though. Both were examples of misaligned incentives, or if you like the law of unintended consequences. The lesson though is clear and useful. Be careful what you -measure- because people will optimize to improve the measure. When the measurement is a proxy for what you actually want, you won't necessarily get the outcomes you were hoping for. For example what makes a good driver? I'd suggest patience and consideration. How many driving incidents are fueled by impatience or inconsiderate? Yet those are impossible to test for, so despite passing the driving test (operate the machine, know the rules) we end up with roads full of terrible drivers.

crabmusket 3y ago

But neither are examples of the theorem the article is about. They were simply misleading. I don't actually doubt that the problem exists in government... But why not provide any actual examples of it? Just endlessly re-hashed stories from a hundred years ago?

walterbell 3y ago
Perhaps someone will forward this article to government employees or public sector organizational game theorists.
- intended 3y ago
  There are most certainly some papers out there which look into the issue. The OP though, opened with a point on the rhetorics of the piece. As is usual, such conversations are tricky, evidence by this sub threads where we are discussing govt. Rhetoric is a pretty interesting topic.

hawthornio 3y ago

These examples are based around the idea of profit motive and these examples show a profit motive is rarely able to achieve the desired effect—these examples in no way speak to government agencies.

bruce511 3y ago

Neither were an example of the shirky effect though. Both were examples of misaligned incentives, or if you like the law of unintended consequences. The lesson though is clear and useful. Be careful what you -measure- because people will optimize to improve the measure. When the measurement is a proxy for what you actually want, you won't necessarily get the outcomes you were hoping for. For example what makes a good driver? I'd suggest patience and consideration. How many driving incidents are fueled by impatience or inconsiderate? Yet those are impossible to test for, so despite passing the driving test (operate the machine, know the rules) we end up with roads full of terrible drivers.