4 ms·

> Even today there is so much homophobia, transphobia, misoginy and racism being touted by people in our most powerful sitting positions t Is that really the c

> Even today there is so much homophobia, transphobia, misoginy and racism being touted by people in our most powerful sitting positions t Is that really the case though? It seems like in many (most? nearly all?) cases we've gone from people saying things that are overtly and objectively racist / sexist / etc. to things that aren't but could be construed that way if you squint hard enough, and it's largely in the eye of the beholder to decide, and along with that we've seen the rise in assuming people's intent. Once you've crossed the bridge of assuming intent, then pretty much everything can be further "evidence" of the foregone conclusion. I invite you to take the statements of the "people in our most powerful sitting positions" for any recent period of time (the past month, the past 6 months, whatever) and make a note of all the ones that you are sure are homophobic, transphobic, racist, or whatever and try to take a look at them with fresh eyes. Set aside for a moment what you are so "sure" about their intent and background and see how many you can find are actually and objectively bad, or if they are just "bad" in the sense because (a) they have a different view than you and/or (b) it's only bad because in your mind that person is already <whatever>-ist and so everything they say is just going to be viewed through that lens. We're never going to say that e.g. racism is a completely solved problem, but the headway we've made over the past century or two is so incredible that from the 30,000 ft view we're relatively close, and the organizations that exist to combat it have largely outlived their purpose and, unfortunately, in many cases seem to exist mostly to fan the flames.

ameister14 3y ago
" Senator calls LGBTQ+ people 'filth,' says most don't want them here " >https://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/news/senator-calls-lgbtq-people-filth-says-most-dont-want-them-here/article_c8979398-d260-11ee-9823-973bf20c3730.html https://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/news/senator-calls-lgbtq... So is this just bad because of a or b? Is it because their view is different, or because I'm not giving them enough credit? How about the fact that three states are having to re-district because they have been using racial gerrymandering to reduce black votes right now?
- dbrueck 3y ago
  Actually, I think this is a fantastic example of my point. He did not, in fact, call LGBTQ+ people filth, at least according to the quote in the article - the headline and the article clearly misconstrue what he said. But let's pretend for a moment that he did say that. Is a state senator from Oklahoma one of the "people in our most powerful sitting positions"? With a sufficiently large population, we will be able to find people saying hateful things until the end of time - I don't dispute that at all. There will always be morons. But as you cast a wider and wider net to find people saying stupid things, you have to also take into account their proportion of the population. Even if he had really said that, he'd be part of a vanishingly small minority. Heck, the very fact that an article was written about what he not-quite said also shows how far we've come.
  - ameister14 3y ago
    "We are a religious state and we are going to fight it to keep that filth out of the state of Oklahoma because we are a Christian state – we are a moral state" Seems to me that he did, in fact, call LGBTQ+ people filth. When later questioned about calling LGBTQ+ people filth, he answered: "I support my constituency, and like I said, we’re a Christian state, and we are tired of having that shoved down our throat at every turn. I’ll let my words [spoken here] speak for theirselves, but that is my statement, and I stand behind it, and I stand behind the Republican Party values, and that is my statement" I get that you want there to be a bright line rule and that the only way for you to see that he said this was if he said it in a way that cannot possibly be construed as anything else, but that's not the reality of the english language. Since his statement was clarified further, I think we can all take it to mean what the headline says and agree that the bit of grace we might grant someone being misunderstood is run through. > Is a state senator from Oklahoma one of the "people in our most powerful sitting positions"? Actually, yes. If anything, recent legislation has shown that you underestimate the power of state government at your peril. As to the "vanishingly small minority" - I'd say if 0.01% of people felt that way, it would be vanishingly small. The reality is, given Republican party platforms in multiple states, that closer to 21% of people feel this way. 21% is a minority, it's true, but it is not vanishingly small. For example, 28% of the country believes gay marriage should be illegal, and 33% believe it is morally unacceptable to be a gay or lesbian person, according to Gallup: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

ameister14 3y ago

" Senator calls LGBTQ+ people 'filth,' says most don't want them here " >https://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/news/senator-calls-lgbtq-people-filth-says-most-dont-want-them-here/article_c8979398-d260-11ee-9823-973bf20c3730.html https://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/news/senator-calls-lgbtq... So is this just bad because of a or b? Is it because their view is different, or because I'm not giving them enough credit? How about the fact that three states are having to re-district because they have been using racial gerrymandering to reduce black votes right now?

dbrueck 3y ago
Actually, I think this is a fantastic example of my point. He did not, in fact, call LGBTQ+ people filth, at least according to the quote in the article - the headline and the article clearly misconstrue what he said. But let's pretend for a moment that he did say that. Is a state senator from Oklahoma one of the "people in our most powerful sitting positions"? With a sufficiently large population, we will be able to find people saying hateful things until the end of time - I don't dispute that at all. There will always be morons. But as you cast a wider and wider net to find people saying stupid things, you have to also take into account their proportion of the population. Even if he had really said that, he'd be part of a vanishingly small minority. Heck, the very fact that an article was written about what he not-quite said also shows how far we've come.
- ameister14 3y ago
  "We are a religious state and we are going to fight it to keep that filth out of the state of Oklahoma because we are a Christian state – we are a moral state" Seems to me that he did, in fact, call LGBTQ+ people filth. When later questioned about calling LGBTQ+ people filth, he answered: "I support my constituency, and like I said, we’re a Christian state, and we are tired of having that shoved down our throat at every turn. I’ll let my words [spoken here] speak for theirselves, but that is my statement, and I stand behind it, and I stand behind the Republican Party values, and that is my statement" I get that you want there to be a bright line rule and that the only way for you to see that he said this was if he said it in a way that cannot possibly be construed as anything else, but that's not the reality of the english language. Since his statement was clarified further, I think we can all take it to mean what the headline says and agree that the bit of grace we might grant someone being misunderstood is run through. > Is a state senator from Oklahoma one of the "people in our most powerful sitting positions"? Actually, yes. If anything, recent legislation has shown that you underestimate the power of state government at your peril. As to the "vanishingly small minority" - I'd say if 0.01% of people felt that way, it would be vanishingly small. The reality is, given Republican party platforms in multiple states, that closer to 21% of people feel this way. 21% is a minority, it's true, but it is not vanishingly small. For example, 28% of the country believes gay marriage should be illegal, and 33% believe it is morally unacceptable to be a gay or lesbian person, according to Gallup: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx