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Naturally, the majority of these students are benefiting from the inability to tell them apart. Alternatives like the Thiel Fellowship might change this. The b

Naturally, the majority of these students are benefiting from the inability to tell them apart. Alternatives like the Thiel Fellowship might change this. The better students might choose these options instead. This could break down traditional academia and legacy systems, leading to a more efficient society.

text0404 3y ago
so we just swap out a Harvard education for the handpicked acolytes of a single billionaire? also, have we considered that optimizing for efficiency is not the best way to structure a society?
CPLX 3y ago
> leading to a more efficient society Efficient at what? Producing more highly-resourced sociopaths who share Peter Theil's values?
- throwaway13337 3y ago
  The parent comment was on how impressive a portion of the graduates were. This presumes the context of able to be successful in business. You may not agree with the values of Peter (I know I don't agree with all of them), but the graduates are often selected for being effective at business. If those kinds of fellowships provide a better signal, then they would be more efficient by definition. Your comment, though, seems to come from a place of political indignation. I hope you can reflect on how those kinds of comments reflect on your own values.
  - CPLX 3y ago
    Of course they represent my own values. Peter Thiel’s approach to business is based on creating monopoly conditions, extracting maximum value from working people, and creating widespread social misery that he doesn’t have to personally experience due to his wealth. Is there a some other way to evaluate a normative discussion of social, business, and educational policy than by bringing values to bear?
    - throwaway13337 3y ago
      You're unfortunately correct that value creation and extraction are not always hand in hand. I also agree that monopoly conditions are bad and a huge problem right now. So probably our values align here. To take Thiel's fellowship charitably, though, these people are both creating and extracting value. And programs like these might have a better track record of identifying, and accelerating these creators that somehow give the market what it wants. Markets aren't perfect but I'm not aware of a better system. I am not sure Thiel's intention about talking so openly about monopoly, but I feel that effects that might align with your values are: 1. That people (hopefully regulators) are more aware of the value extracting monopolies. I know Thiel has talked very publicly against a few tech giants he doesn't like. 2. That people (hopefully creators) think more about creating tiny monopolies. The most common problem I see business creators make is that they attack a red ocean. So maybe he calls them monopolies, but I just use the term 'niche'. They're certainly a more likely way to succeed and they create value for other people. Anyway, Thiel is also playing political games of 'us versus them' and trying not to look charitably on the others. I felt like your comment continued that sort of damaging perspective. I don't think only sociopaths are succeeding - in fact, our world progress is proof that cooperation and trust work very well even against cynics that exploit it, overall. I also think that most people (including those that are vocal) really want good things for humanity. They might even have similar thoughts on how to get there. But the way they talk about it and their identity group seems to get in the way. We just get stuck in narratives that focus on differences. When we do that, we don't move the other party to our side, they just dig their heels in. And we probably agree with them much more than we think.
      - EchoChamberMan 3y ago
        You're right, he doesn't want a monopoly, he wants to disband democracy completely! > Thiel explained in a 2009 essay that he had come to "no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel
        throwaway13337 3y ago

text0404 3y ago

so we just swap out a Harvard education for the handpicked acolytes of a single billionaire? also, have we considered that optimizing for efficiency is not the best way to structure a society?

CPLX 3y ago

> leading to a more efficient society Efficient at what? Producing more highly-resourced sociopaths who share Peter Theil's values?

throwaway13337 3y ago
The parent comment was on how impressive a portion of the graduates were. This presumes the context of able to be successful in business. You may not agree with the values of Peter (I know I don't agree with all of them), but the graduates are often selected for being effective at business. If those kinds of fellowships provide a better signal, then they would be more efficient by definition. Your comment, though, seems to come from a place of political indignation. I hope you can reflect on how those kinds of comments reflect on your own values.
- CPLX 3y ago
  Of course they represent my own values. Peter Thiel’s approach to business is based on creating monopoly conditions, extracting maximum value from working people, and creating widespread social misery that he doesn’t have to personally experience due to his wealth. Is there a some other way to evaluate a normative discussion of social, business, and educational policy than by bringing values to bear?
  - throwaway13337 3y ago
    You're unfortunately correct that value creation and extraction are not always hand in hand. I also agree that monopoly conditions are bad and a huge problem right now. So probably our values align here. To take Thiel's fellowship charitably, though, these people are both creating and extracting value. And programs like these might have a better track record of identifying, and accelerating these creators that somehow give the market what it wants. Markets aren't perfect but I'm not aware of a better system. I am not sure Thiel's intention about talking so openly about monopoly, but I feel that effects that might align with your values are: 1. That people (hopefully regulators) are more aware of the value extracting monopolies. I know Thiel has talked very publicly against a few tech giants he doesn't like. 2. That people (hopefully creators) think more about creating tiny monopolies. The most common problem I see business creators make is that they attack a red ocean. So maybe he calls them monopolies, but I just use the term 'niche'. They're certainly a more likely way to succeed and they create value for other people. Anyway, Thiel is also playing political games of 'us versus them' and trying not to look charitably on the others. I felt like your comment continued that sort of damaging perspective. I don't think only sociopaths are succeeding - in fact, our world progress is proof that cooperation and trust work very well even against cynics that exploit it, overall. I also think that most people (including those that are vocal) really want good things for humanity. They might even have similar thoughts on how to get there. But the way they talk about it and their identity group seems to get in the way. We just get stuck in narratives that focus on differences. When we do that, we don't move the other party to our side, they just dig their heels in. And we probably agree with them much more than we think.
    - EchoChamberMan 3y ago
      You're right, he doesn't want a monopoly, he wants to disband democracy completely! > Thiel explained in a 2009 essay that he had come to "no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel
      - throwaway13337 3y ago