15 ms·

My first thought was of the 2 major US political parties and their mission of promising things they have no intention of ever doing to get votes so they can win

My first thought was of the 2 major US political parties and their mission of promising things they have no intention of ever doing to get votes so they can win elections, take away more of our freedoms and redistribute more wealth from the many to the few. TurboTax is also a great example though.

wesselbindt 3y ago
This is quite independent of the US. The state functions purely to protect the interests of the dominant class. In the US, the dominant class happens to be capital owners, but that's true in most of the world these days.
- jjjjj55555 3y ago
  I tend to agree, but then I look at Europe and I say, who is the ruling class here? In the US it's obvious that corporations run everything, but that doesn't seem to be the case in western Europe.
  - cheschire 3y ago
    That's because western europe is the ruling class.
    - jjjjj55555 3y ago
      All of the people of western Europe are the ruling class? LOL I doubt any of them feel that way. What are they ruling exactly?
  - smallmancontrov 3y ago
    Just because they occasionally legislate USB-C chargers doesn't make them bastions of socialism, lol.
    - jjjjj55555 3y ago
      I know they're not socialist, but they're also not clearly dominated by giant corporations the way the US is. Who is the ruling class then?
      - smallmancontrov 3y ago
        Means & motive are still largely governed by whether you own things for a living or work for a living. The pay to exist vs get paid to exist dynamic is alive and well over there and the debates are all quite familiar. After all they invented the rules and we just copy-pasted them with a few small modifications. The ownership class just isn't as dominant as it is in the US at the moment, for better and for worse.
    - bdw5204 3y ago
      Is it possible that they pass USB-C charging and data privacy laws in Europe because the companies affected are primarily American companies not European companies? Likewise, I imagine they pass anti-fossil fuel laws because there aren't really any major fossil fuel producing countries in Europe besides Russia which is both a pariah and the continent's gas station.
      - lentil_soup 3y ago
        Not countries producing but there's huge oil companies based in Europe (BP, Shell, Total) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_oil_and_gas_companies_by_revenue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_oil_and_gas_...
  - psychoslave 3y ago
    I won't say this is a good representation of every european country, but in France, basically two bilionary own all mainstream private press media, the rich class basically built Macron to push their agenda, and most important laws anyway come from Europe transpositions where only those that can build a perpetual lobby service can push a topic into a directive. So yes obviously Europe is a paradise of direct democracy where every citizen bloom thanks to a social structure made to help each of them thrive and reach the best version of themselves acting everyday for an harmonious society free of any anxiety about future that promise only bright shiny days for the masses and their children.
- kubanczyk 3y ago
  >> the 2 major US political parties and their mission of promising things they have no intention of ever doing > This is quite independent of the US. Happens less in electoral systems where the 2nd party can become 3rd overnight. Politics become less rigid.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    Multiparty systems can become completely deadlocked as well. Belgium has had complete deadlocks because nobody can form a coalition, Israel had five elections in three years for similar reasons, Britain was effectively deadlocked under Theresa May, and Canada has had outright minority governments. I also wouldn’t describe US politics as “rigid” just because we have the same two parties, because each party has different factions and some of the most powerful factions were either marginal or completely nonexistent a couple decades ago.
    - School-Cotton 3y ago
      The biggest problem with the U.S. system isn’t that there are only two parties (that’s a problem, just not the biggest one). It’s that both parties need to agree in order to pass anything (due to the senate filibuster), which as far as I know is unique among democracies.
      - themoonisachees 3y ago
        I'm not saying that to say that the us is any better, but simply for context for what happens when you don't need all the parties to approve: France effectively has that by way of the infamous 49.3. the majority party coalition can effectively force all others to accept a law, without ever presenting it for a vote. The caveat is that the other parties can start a vote of no confidence and dissolve the government with a simple majority, but in reality this never happens because dissolving the government over [pension reform, the budget, insert issue here] is disproportionate. The current government's lack of caring about their voter base because of the Overton windows shifting to the right has obviously aggravated this.
      - 3y ago
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  > The state functions purely ... any sentence that starts this way is just walking straight into its own falsity. No human system as complex as "the state" ever functions "purely" to do anything. Instead, it's a venue in which different interests and power levels sometimes compete and sometimes cooperate, sometimes achieving goals and often not.
electrondood 3y ago
[flagged]
- kayisa6325 3y ago
  Yes yes and the other is the saviour of the democracy and humanity, while preserving equity. Either you're new on this planet or just lying to yourself - all parties are marching against same goal, they just keep the distraction going so people are interally conflicted instead of paying attention.
  - mikepurvis 3y ago
    Not really a helpful comment in either content or tone. Biden and Trump are marketedly different in both major policies and governing competence, and it doesn't help the discourse to say that they're just "marching against the same goal."
    - westhanover 3y ago
      Neither is your comment. If you polled Americans I think more would say both parties are full of shit than would take one parties line like you are.
  - catlifeonmars 3y ago
    > if you squint, maybe they're kinda the same. > all parties are marching against same goal Clearly you’re both in agreement.
mgfist 3y ago
Biden passed the most comprehensive climate law in US history. The most unbelievable part is that the law was nearly unchanged from what was written by climate experts. Usually bills start out looking good, then get frankensteined by the hundreds of stakeholders that want to cram their shit into it. For once, we got a pretty clean bill that will actually do good (based on the climate experts I've read). Form your own opinions, but I had to mention real action that happened.

wesselbindt 3y ago

This is quite independent of the US. The state functions purely to protect the interests of the dominant class. In the US, the dominant class happens to be capital owners, but that's true in most of the world these days.

jjjjj55555 3y ago
I tend to agree, but then I look at Europe and I say, who is the ruling class here? In the US it's obvious that corporations run everything, but that doesn't seem to be the case in western Europe.
- cheschire 3y ago
  That's because western europe is the ruling class.
  - jjjjj55555 3y ago
    All of the people of western Europe are the ruling class? LOL I doubt any of them feel that way. What are they ruling exactly?
- smallmancontrov 3y ago
  Just because they occasionally legislate USB-C chargers doesn't make them bastions of socialism, lol.
  - jjjjj55555 3y ago
    I know they're not socialist, but they're also not clearly dominated by giant corporations the way the US is. Who is the ruling class then?
    - smallmancontrov 3y ago
      Means & motive are still largely governed by whether you own things for a living or work for a living. The pay to exist vs get paid to exist dynamic is alive and well over there and the debates are all quite familiar. After all they invented the rules and we just copy-pasted them with a few small modifications. The ownership class just isn't as dominant as it is in the US at the moment, for better and for worse.
  - bdw5204 3y ago
    Is it possible that they pass USB-C charging and data privacy laws in Europe because the companies affected are primarily American companies not European companies? Likewise, I imagine they pass anti-fossil fuel laws because there aren't really any major fossil fuel producing countries in Europe besides Russia which is both a pariah and the continent's gas station.
    - lentil_soup 3y ago
      Not countries producing but there's huge oil companies based in Europe (BP, Shell, Total) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_oil_and_gas_companies_by_revenue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_oil_and_gas_...
- psychoslave 3y ago
  I won't say this is a good representation of every european country, but in France, basically two bilionary own all mainstream private press media, the rich class basically built Macron to push their agenda, and most important laws anyway come from Europe transpositions where only those that can build a perpetual lobby service can push a topic into a directive. So yes obviously Europe is a paradise of direct democracy where every citizen bloom thanks to a social structure made to help each of them thrive and reach the best version of themselves acting everyday for an harmonious society free of any anxiety about future that promise only bright shiny days for the masses and their children.
kubanczyk 3y ago
>> the 2 major US political parties and their mission of promising things they have no intention of ever doing > This is quite independent of the US. Happens less in electoral systems where the 2nd party can become 3rd overnight. Politics become less rigid.
- philwelch 3y ago
  Multiparty systems can become completely deadlocked as well. Belgium has had complete deadlocks because nobody can form a coalition, Israel had five elections in three years for similar reasons, Britain was effectively deadlocked under Theresa May, and Canada has had outright minority governments. I also wouldn’t describe US politics as “rigid” just because we have the same two parties, because each party has different factions and some of the most powerful factions were either marginal or completely nonexistent a couple decades ago.
  - School-Cotton 3y ago
    The biggest problem with the U.S. system isn’t that there are only two parties (that’s a problem, just not the biggest one). It’s that both parties need to agree in order to pass anything (due to the senate filibuster), which as far as I know is unique among democracies.
    - themoonisachees 3y ago
      I'm not saying that to say that the us is any better, but simply for context for what happens when you don't need all the parties to approve: France effectively has that by way of the infamous 49.3. the majority party coalition can effectively force all others to accept a law, without ever presenting it for a vote. The caveat is that the other parties can start a vote of no confidence and dissolve the government with a simple majority, but in reality this never happens because dissolving the government over [pension reform, the budget, insert issue here] is disproportionate. The current government's lack of caring about their voter base because of the Overton windows shifting to the right has obviously aggravated this.
    - 3y ago
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
> The state functions purely ... any sentence that starts this way is just walking straight into its own falsity. No human system as complex as "the state" ever functions "purely" to do anything. Instead, it's a venue in which different interests and power levels sometimes compete and sometimes cooperate, sometimes achieving goals and often not.

electrondood 3y ago

[flagged]

kayisa6325 3y ago
Yes yes and the other is the saviour of the democracy and humanity, while preserving equity. Either you're new on this planet or just lying to yourself - all parties are marching against same goal, they just keep the distraction going so people are interally conflicted instead of paying attention.
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  Not really a helpful comment in either content or tone. Biden and Trump are marketedly different in both major policies and governing competence, and it doesn't help the discourse to say that they're just "marching against the same goal."
  - westhanover 3y ago
    Neither is your comment. If you polled Americans I think more would say both parties are full of shit than would take one parties line like you are.
- catlifeonmars 3y ago
  > if you squint, maybe they're kinda the same. > all parties are marching against same goal Clearly you’re both in agreement.

mgfist 3y ago

Biden passed the most comprehensive climate law in US history. The most unbelievable part is that the law was nearly unchanged from what was written by climate experts. Usually bills start out looking good, then get frankensteined by the hundreds of stakeholders that want to cram their shit into it. For once, we got a pretty clean bill that will actually do good (based on the climate experts I've read). Form your own opinions, but I had to mention real action that happened.