3 ms·

yes, this is a good example of an anti-capitalist solution to health care.

eru 3y ago
From the article: > Patients sometimes went along with this, being indifferent between spending $4 of someone else’s money or $2000 of someone else’s money. Everything in the US health system is like this, and the Amish avoid all of it. They have a normal free market in medical care where people pay for a product with their own money (or their community’s money) and have incentives to check how much it costs before they buy it. I do want to over-emphasize this one, and honestly I am surprised Amish health care costs are only ten times cheaper than ours are. People voluntarily getting together to do stuff and not forcing anything on anyone is pretty compatible with capitalism (whether it's 'capitalist' by itself is a question of definition). The main thing I take from the article is: you can lower costs dramatically, if you can avoid some of the more onerous regulations. And as a second point: if you can build up a reputation for being honest and trustworthy, you can bring down transaction costs a lot. The point about Amish never suing doctors mixes both: they are capitalising on that point via reputation; but in principle you could also sign those rights away with a contract. But while we allow companies to sign these kinds of contracts with each other, regulations doesn't allow patients to sign those rights away.
- greenie_beans 3y ago
  i'm sorry but this is a very anti-capitalist solution — a collective, shared resource in a community that everybody has access to if they contribute to it, and the organization is structured in a way that all participants have the chance to participate in the decision making. you can rationalize that it's not however you wish but that won't change the fact that the amish community is very much at odds with capitalism, and the way they do healthcare is very anti-capitalist. > People voluntarily getting together to do stuff and not forcing anything on anyone is pretty compatible with capitalism (whether it's 'capitalist' by itself is a question of definition). this is how anarchism works, too. anarchism is an anti-capitalist political theory and one of the fundamental premise is free, voluntary association. people always see the words "free market" and conflate free market with capitalism when a free market can be a component of any economic structure. it's okay if you agree with anti-capitalist solutions, i swear that the capitalist gods won't smite you. i appreciate scott alexander's slimely writing skills to get capitalists to think that an anti-capitalist solution is a good idea.
  - eru 3y ago
    > i'm sorry but this is a very anti-capitalist solution — a collective, shared resource in a community that everybody has access to if they contribute to it, and the organization is structured in a way that all participants have the chance to participate in the decision making. That's pretty silly. By the same token, you would have to argue that companies are anti-capitalists, because they are largely run on a command-and-control model. Or families are anti-capitalist.
    - greenie_beans 3y ago
      lol no, that is just a terribly weak argument with a logical error. not to mention ignorant of what capitalism is. also, some amish communities even call it "mutual aid" which is very anti-capitalist.

eru 3y ago

From the article: > Patients sometimes went along with this, being indifferent between spending $4 of someone else’s money or $2000 of someone else’s money. Everything in the US health system is like this, and the Amish avoid all of it. They have a normal free market in medical care where people pay for a product with their own money (or their community’s money) and have incentives to check how much it costs before they buy it. I do want to over-emphasize this one, and honestly I am surprised Amish health care costs are only ten times cheaper than ours are. People voluntarily getting together to do stuff and not forcing anything on anyone is pretty compatible with capitalism (whether it's 'capitalist' by itself is a question of definition). The main thing I take from the article is: you can lower costs dramatically, if you can avoid some of the more onerous regulations. And as a second point: if you can build up a reputation for being honest and trustworthy, you can bring down transaction costs a lot. The point about Amish never suing doctors mixes both: they are capitalising on that point via reputation; but in principle you could also sign those rights away with a contract. But while we allow companies to sign these kinds of contracts with each other, regulations doesn't allow patients to sign those rights away.

greenie_beans 3y ago
i'm sorry but this is a very anti-capitalist solution — a collective, shared resource in a community that everybody has access to if they contribute to it, and the organization is structured in a way that all participants have the chance to participate in the decision making. you can rationalize that it's not however you wish but that won't change the fact that the amish community is very much at odds with capitalism, and the way they do healthcare is very anti-capitalist. > People voluntarily getting together to do stuff and not forcing anything on anyone is pretty compatible with capitalism (whether it's 'capitalist' by itself is a question of definition). this is how anarchism works, too. anarchism is an anti-capitalist political theory and one of the fundamental premise is free, voluntary association. people always see the words "free market" and conflate free market with capitalism when a free market can be a component of any economic structure. it's okay if you agree with anti-capitalist solutions, i swear that the capitalist gods won't smite you. i appreciate scott alexander's slimely writing skills to get capitalists to think that an anti-capitalist solution is a good idea.
- eru 3y ago
  > i'm sorry but this is a very anti-capitalist solution — a collective, shared resource in a community that everybody has access to if they contribute to it, and the organization is structured in a way that all participants have the chance to participate in the decision making. That's pretty silly. By the same token, you would have to argue that companies are anti-capitalists, because they are largely run on a command-and-control model. Or families are anti-capitalist.
  - greenie_beans 3y ago
    lol no, that is just a terribly weak argument with a logical error. not to mention ignorant of what capitalism is. also, some amish communities even call it "mutual aid" which is very anti-capitalist.