3 ms·

Almost an open-source boot chain for Rockchip's RK3588

95 points by voxadam 3y ago

transpute 3y ago
Related: "Getting the RK3588 SoC supported in upstream Linux (2023)", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39356530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39356530
graphe 3y ago
How is it in terms of usability? I read there was support, tried a rockchip sbc and found support lacking. Judging from the functionality of various pine products and support, is this any different?
- CuriousCosmic 3y ago
  the pine product that shares this SoC (QuartzPro64) has to my knowledge not actually been released officially yet. The closest would probably be the Quartz64 which uses the RK3566. The RK3566 is pretty well supported but it has some quirks since most products just use its big brother the RK3568 instead so most of the dev efforts come from that model instead. The RK3588 is already used in a handful of pretty popular SBCs (such as the OrangePi5) so despite being newer and potentially having a bit less mature drivers in some areas, it is almost certainly getting way more development attention.
- zokier 3y ago
  https://gitlab.collabora.com/hardware-enablement/rockchip-3588/notes-for-rockchip-3588/-/blob/main/mainline-status.md https://gitlab.collabora.com/hardware-enablement/rockchip-35... has some docs Really it boils down to specific SoC and even specific device; it is futile to try to generalize too much. But Rockchip has seen steady progress in this front, and I'd assume older devices like rk3399 based ones especially would have pretty solid support.
- rcarmo 3y ago
  Don't know about this specific piece of code yet, but I have had good results with one board (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/01/20/1800 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/01/20/1800) and mixed results with another (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000). I have another couple RK3588 and RK3588S boards that I just got and that look promising, but I haven't done all my tests yet.
markhahn 3y ago
It is astonishing that open firmware is not yet normal and expected! How can we begin to expect our systems to be secure, correct, efficient, and sustainable without a fully open stack? Trusting vendors is like the role of the Church in the dark ages.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Desire and financial sustainability are not the same thing.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- pjmlp 3y ago
  That is why there is a whole industry built around certification and NDA accessibility.
- greggsy 3y ago
  Manufacturers and designers will naturally optimise their products (for energy, flops, features, time to market and/or cost) in order to gain an edge over their competitors. Thier requires them to either patent, license, or otherwise obfuscate their designs. This isn’t a conspiracy - going full open source is very rarely cost effective or commercially viable. A vast proportion of products and features would never have come to being in a world that was wholly funded by goodwill.
  - salawat 3y ago
    The inspoken assumption there is that all work is only spawned out of economic interest. That is not the case. Sometimes, there is just a job to be done.
rcarmo 3y ago
The timing is serendipitous - only yesterday I was having another go at building an image for one board (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000) and I am having trouble with uBoot, so I'm definitely going to dig in.
vaxman 3y ago
https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hides-inside-computer-chip/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hi... (/"Lil Jon Bend" begins playing) 2016..2020 = sufficient interval to implement See also: Google Search: "rockchip backdoor", "rockchip malware" In fairness, doubt there are truly evil people at AllWinner/Rockchip, Espresif, etc... but when (not if) an animal with a "make my day, we'll grow more" mentality walks into your office and sets a gun on the table in front of your family picture and asks to discuss CCP response to ME, PSP, (probably VideoCore), "whachagunnado"?

95 points by voxadam 3y ago

Related: "Getting the RK3588 SoC supported in upstream Linux (2023)", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39356530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39356530

graphe 3y ago

How is it in terms of usability? I read there was support, tried a rockchip sbc and found support lacking. Judging from the functionality of various pine products and support, is this any different?

CuriousCosmic 3y ago
the pine product that shares this SoC (QuartzPro64) has to my knowledge not actually been released officially yet. The closest would probably be the Quartz64 which uses the RK3566. The RK3566 is pretty well supported but it has some quirks since most products just use its big brother the RK3568 instead so most of the dev efforts come from that model instead. The RK3588 is already used in a handful of pretty popular SBCs (such as the OrangePi5) so despite being newer and potentially having a bit less mature drivers in some areas, it is almost certainly getting way more development attention.
zokier 3y ago
https://gitlab.collabora.com/hardware-enablement/rockchip-3588/notes-for-rockchip-3588/-/blob/main/mainline-status.md https://gitlab.collabora.com/hardware-enablement/rockchip-35... has some docs Really it boils down to specific SoC and even specific device; it is futile to try to generalize too much. But Rockchip has seen steady progress in this front, and I'd assume older devices like rk3399 based ones especially would have pretty solid support.
rcarmo 3y ago
Don't know about this specific piece of code yet, but I have had good results with one board (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/01/20/1800 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/01/20/1800) and mixed results with another (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000). I have another couple RK3588 and RK3588S boards that I just got and that look promising, but I haven't done all my tests yet.

markhahn 3y ago

It is astonishing that open firmware is not yet normal and expected! How can we begin to expect our systems to be secure, correct, efficient, and sustainable without a fully open stack? Trusting vendors is like the role of the Church in the dark ages.

ethbr1 3y ago
Desire and financial sustainability are not the same thing.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
pjmlp 3y ago
That is why there is a whole industry built around certification and NDA accessibility.
greggsy 3y ago
Manufacturers and designers will naturally optimise their products (for energy, flops, features, time to market and/or cost) in order to gain an edge over their competitors. Thier requires them to either patent, license, or otherwise obfuscate their designs. This isn’t a conspiracy - going full open source is very rarely cost effective or commercially viable. A vast proportion of products and features would never have come to being in a world that was wholly funded by goodwill.
- salawat 3y ago
  The inspoken assumption there is that all work is only spawned out of economic interest. That is not the case. Sometimes, there is just a job to be done.

rcarmo 3y ago

The timing is serendipitous - only yesterday I was having another go at building an image for one board (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000) and I am having trouble with uBoot, so I'm definitely going to dig in.

vaxman 3y ago

https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hides-inside-computer-chip/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hi... (/"Lil Jon Bend" begins playing) 2016..2020 = sufficient interval to implement See also: Google Search: "rockchip backdoor", "rockchip malware" In fairness, doubt there are truly evil people at AllWinner/Rockchip, Espresif, etc... but when (not if) an animal with a "make my day, we'll grow more" mentality walks into your office and sets a gun on the table in front of your family picture and asks to discuss CCP response to ME, PSP, (probably VideoCore), "whachagunnado"?