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Developers seem in disbelief that it can happen to them? Wut?! We are precious, rare snowflakes who can demand sky-high salaries and leave if some manager even

Developers seem in disbelief that it can happen to them? Wut?! We are precious, rare snowflakes who can demand sky-high salaries and leave if some manager even looks at us the wrong way. I have some friends working in sales and the amount of scolding and toxicity they face in their workplace would make a software developer break into tears and leave for a therapist. I don't think 1000 applicants on a job is "bots applying automatically", that's just developers in disbelief trying to patch their feeble psyche with an explanation they can stomach. I seen this thing a lot on other professions than IT. Even ones that need some relatively difficult college degree and professional license like accounting. For a while there was a slight shortage of accountants so universities kept producing them, now a job has 200-300 applicants and they aren't bots. "Secretary" easily gets over 1000, I remember some time ago seeing 1500+ on a position and thinking "how can one be so stupid or desperate to even apply anymore"? Well, hundreds of thousands of graduates spitted out by universities and bootcamps coupled with an economy downturn and here we are: developers are the new secretaries. Hope you know to type well ladies and gents coze you're gonna need it to get that job competing with 1000+ with about the same skill.

alephnerd 3y ago
While I agree with you about SWE becoming increasingly commoditized (it 100% is), I'd disagree with comparing it with Secretary work - that industry is in complete free fall due to automation. A better comparison for SWE would probably be Accounting and Law - both saw salaries stagnate as the number of entry level candidates skyrocketed, but once you get your foot in the door there is a solid path forward. On top of that, because margins are so high in the software industry (50-70% compared to 1-10% in most other industries) there is a lot more cushion to support SWE salaries. > with an economy downturn We (in the US) aren't in an economic downturn anymore. Stocks have been rallying, GDP growth is some of the highest globally for the developed world, inflation has been tamped down, and local investment has skyrocketed. On top of that, software is now viewed as critical by all organizations - and the ATT outage only highlighted that point even further. > now a job has 200-300 applicants and they aren't bots Because you'd be an idiot if you don't mass apply using your resume. Everyone does it, so you have to as well. This strategy is what has been taught by University Career Services and upperclassmen since I was in college. Greenhouse and Lever apps make it very easy to apply to a job as well, and a number of us just automate the application process to keep a healthy pipeline of interviews (for practice or the option to leave for another role)
- riehwvfbk 3y ago
  It just feels like a downturn to the average person. A lot of this supposed growth is the real purchasing power of the dollar dropping precipitously leading to an asset bubble. And what economic growth is real trickles down to the middle class in the form of stagnant salaries and layoffs. Tons of jobs created: yeah, but minimum income ones that nobody wants. Middle class job creation is stagnant or negative. Inflation tamped down: yes, primarily by manipulating the CPI calculation. Real prices are still rising.
  - mark_l_watson 3y ago
    I agree with your comments more than the parent you are replying to. Inflation is staggering. Those of us, mostly older people, with lots of capital are benefiting by the booming stock prices, etc., but average workers whose income is mostly salary are screwed. I do think things are generally good right now, and I expect because of the upcoming presidential election the economy will be manipulated to look good, but we will hit an inflection point where the cost of paying interest on government and personal debt will collapse the economy, at least for a while. I have what is probably a worthless prediction: the many democracies, true democracies, around the world will generally do all right over the next ten years, but I think the US, Russia, and China will all have serious problems. There are exceptions to this: countries like South Korea will also have problems stemming from really low birth rates. So, I am betting most of the world will do quite well over the long term, but a few countries will not.
  - fundad 3y ago
    Even if you have a good salary, with no assets, the economy will always feel bad. The time is now to put money away.
  - noahtallen 3y ago
    I would say that a lot of the economy feeling bad is due to shrinkflation and jacked prices which happened during Covid that will never return to “normal.” Even if inflation is normal this year, it will still feel bad compared to recent memory, because in the last couple of years it increased by much more. There is another aspect where most people I know (including low income in low cost of living areas) can often live comfortably, but some things like buying a house are absolutely less accessible.
Cacti 3y ago
A lot of things will shake out once compute is no longer growing pseudo-exponentially.
deprecative 3y ago
SWEs are all rockstar who would only be hurt by unions they say just before they get fired because a higher up wants their bonus or their stock price to go up for their 'portfolio'. It could never happen to them. Well, when you play with fire you get burned.
satvikpendem 3y ago
> I don't think 1000 applicants on a job is "bots applying automatically", that's just developers in disbelief trying to patch their feeble psyche with an explanation they can stomach. No, this is objectively true. I've posted jobs before and LinkedIn counts those who merely click on the apply button as being an applicant. I've gotten those 500+ "applicants" alerts but I'd be lucky to get even 1/20 of that number of resumes.
throwaway5959 3y ago
Get ahold of yourself man.

alephnerd 3y ago

While I agree with you about SWE becoming increasingly commoditized (it 100% is), I'd disagree with comparing it with Secretary work - that industry is in complete free fall due to automation. A better comparison for SWE would probably be Accounting and Law - both saw salaries stagnate as the number of entry level candidates skyrocketed, but once you get your foot in the door there is a solid path forward. On top of that, because margins are so high in the software industry (50-70% compared to 1-10% in most other industries) there is a lot more cushion to support SWE salaries. > with an economy downturn We (in the US) aren't in an economic downturn anymore. Stocks have been rallying, GDP growth is some of the highest globally for the developed world, inflation has been tamped down, and local investment has skyrocketed. On top of that, software is now viewed as critical by all organizations - and the ATT outage only highlighted that point even further. > now a job has 200-300 applicants and they aren't bots Because you'd be an idiot if you don't mass apply using your resume. Everyone does it, so you have to as well. This strategy is what has been taught by University Career Services and upperclassmen since I was in college. Greenhouse and Lever apps make it very easy to apply to a job as well, and a number of us just automate the application process to keep a healthy pipeline of interviews (for practice or the option to leave for another role)

riehwvfbk 3y ago
It just feels like a downturn to the average person. A lot of this supposed growth is the real purchasing power of the dollar dropping precipitously leading to an asset bubble. And what economic growth is real trickles down to the middle class in the form of stagnant salaries and layoffs. Tons of jobs created: yeah, but minimum income ones that nobody wants. Middle class job creation is stagnant or negative. Inflation tamped down: yes, primarily by manipulating the CPI calculation. Real prices are still rising.
- mark_l_watson 3y ago
  I agree with your comments more than the parent you are replying to. Inflation is staggering. Those of us, mostly older people, with lots of capital are benefiting by the booming stock prices, etc., but average workers whose income is mostly salary are screwed. I do think things are generally good right now, and I expect because of the upcoming presidential election the economy will be manipulated to look good, but we will hit an inflection point where the cost of paying interest on government and personal debt will collapse the economy, at least for a while. I have what is probably a worthless prediction: the many democracies, true democracies, around the world will generally do all right over the next ten years, but I think the US, Russia, and China will all have serious problems. There are exceptions to this: countries like South Korea will also have problems stemming from really low birth rates. So, I am betting most of the world will do quite well over the long term, but a few countries will not.
- fundad 3y ago
  Even if you have a good salary, with no assets, the economy will always feel bad. The time is now to put money away.
- noahtallen 3y ago
  I would say that a lot of the economy feeling bad is due to shrinkflation and jacked prices which happened during Covid that will never return to “normal.” Even if inflation is normal this year, it will still feel bad compared to recent memory, because in the last couple of years it increased by much more. There is another aspect where most people I know (including low income in low cost of living areas) can often live comfortably, but some things like buying a house are absolutely less accessible.

Cacti 3y ago

A lot of things will shake out once compute is no longer growing pseudo-exponentially.

deprecative 3y ago

SWEs are all rockstar who would only be hurt by unions they say just before they get fired because a higher up wants their bonus or their stock price to go up for their 'portfolio'. It could never happen to them. Well, when you play with fire you get burned.

satvikpendem 3y ago

> I don't think 1000 applicants on a job is "bots applying automatically", that's just developers in disbelief trying to patch their feeble psyche with an explanation they can stomach. No, this is objectively true. I've posted jobs before and LinkedIn counts those who merely click on the apply button as being an applicant. I've gotten those 500+ "applicants" alerts but I'd be lucky to get even 1/20 of that number of resumes.

throwaway5959 3y ago

Get ahold of yourself man.