3 ms·

> This is something i think has been slowly changing in the US. At least among the people i know. I think your cohort is just aging.

mooreds 3y ago
It's hard to know, right? I think that COVID knocked the crap out of a lot of social norms, one of those being "live to work". But it could also be aging, as nothing helps you understand life is short like seeing obituaries of people only a few years older than you (or even younger than you).
- roenxi 3y ago
  I'd guess the sequence is people start off young and naive, live through a downturn and then discover that the contract lays out precisely what their employer thinks of them. Doing the job then going home is not a new philosophy. The people living to work are just gullible.
  - nickd2001 3y ago
    As you work in tech for a number of years you discover that (a) employers don't become permanently more loyal or generous to you if you "work your ass off" and (b) working long hours doesn't actually make you more productive overall anyway. I suspect one reason for ageism in the industry is that management are too inexperienced themselves to have discovered either of these.
k8svet 3y ago
As a young 30 something I cannot disagree more. I'm flabbergasted at have met my bff's ex and found out he was an old school company man. I've never seen a person so used and so unaware of it in my life and of course he finally left with nothing to show for years of being a victim of labor laws violations. His dad was like a life long Walmart mid-upper-level person. No one I know, besides him, has job loyalty. Not the senior dev in Seattle making 400k, not the dog trainer, not the chef, not even my parents. And younger generations are just more and more cynical about it. As they should be.
- mooreds 3y ago
  I don't know about this. I have found a few places with great bosses/owners that deserved my loyalty. They proved it by investing in the team, making hard choices to cut their salary rather than lay people off, and in general being loyal first. When you find a place like this, I advise hanging around for a while.
  - nickd2001 3y ago
    I agree with this. However, the flip side is, a great company can get bought out by a horrible one. A great boss who appreciates the good stuff you did might leave for a another job. (though maybe you can follow them). Things can change quickly. Public sector is different. Its far more long-term. Which is great. Although, OTOH things that are wrong with it remain the same for a long time. Ironically, the reverse is true. I know someone that worked for a company that was horrible and he thought about leaving, then it got bought out by a decent one.
bogota 3y ago
Very likely. For context im 33 and mostly hang around people from 28 to 38 range. Although I also notice a different attitude with the new devs that we hire who are 24 to 26.

mooreds 3y ago

It's hard to know, right? I think that COVID knocked the crap out of a lot of social norms, one of those being "live to work". But it could also be aging, as nothing helps you understand life is short like seeing obituaries of people only a few years older than you (or even younger than you).

roenxi 3y ago
I'd guess the sequence is people start off young and naive, live through a downturn and then discover that the contract lays out precisely what their employer thinks of them. Doing the job then going home is not a new philosophy. The people living to work are just gullible.
- nickd2001 3y ago
  As you work in tech for a number of years you discover that (a) employers don't become permanently more loyal or generous to you if you "work your ass off" and (b) working long hours doesn't actually make you more productive overall anyway. I suspect one reason for ageism in the industry is that management are too inexperienced themselves to have discovered either of these.

k8svet 3y ago

As a young 30 something I cannot disagree more. I'm flabbergasted at have met my bff's ex and found out he was an old school company man. I've never seen a person so used and so unaware of it in my life and of course he finally left with nothing to show for years of being a victim of labor laws violations. His dad was like a life long Walmart mid-upper-level person. No one I know, besides him, has job loyalty. Not the senior dev in Seattle making 400k, not the dog trainer, not the chef, not even my parents. And younger generations are just more and more cynical about it. As they should be.

mooreds 3y ago
I don't know about this. I have found a few places with great bosses/owners that deserved my loyalty. They proved it by investing in the team, making hard choices to cut their salary rather than lay people off, and in general being loyal first. When you find a place like this, I advise hanging around for a while.
- nickd2001 3y ago
  I agree with this. However, the flip side is, a great company can get bought out by a horrible one. A great boss who appreciates the good stuff you did might leave for a another job. (though maybe you can follow them). Things can change quickly. Public sector is different. Its far more long-term. Which is great. Although, OTOH things that are wrong with it remain the same for a long time. Ironically, the reverse is true. I know someone that worked for a company that was horrible and he thought about leaving, then it got bought out by a decent one.

bogota 3y ago

Very likely. For context im 33 and mostly hang around people from 28 to 38 range. Although I also notice a different attitude with the new devs that we hire who are 24 to 26.