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Whenever I read articles like this, I’m so grateful that in the U.K. healthcare is not tied to your job. The NHS may struggle and have its issues. But I have ne

Whenever I read articles like this, I’m so grateful that in the U.K. healthcare is not tied to your job. The NHS may struggle and have its issues. But I have never had to experience the stress of the thought of losing access to care.

mooreds 3y ago
I live in the USA and always wonder what awesome companies or organizations are we missing out on because people are tied to their employer due to healthcare. I know at least one couple close to retirement that is waiting until one of them can get onto cobra for the months before they can get onto Medicare. (They just budgeted for cobra in their planning.) I like how the Aussies do it (or at least how they did it last I looked): basic public healthcare plan provided by the government, then supplemental plans offered by the employer as a benefit.
- hestefisk 3y ago
  Aussie here. Very few employers here offer health plans. Medicare is more or less like NHS in the UK. If you earn more than a certain amount, you have to pay for your own private health insurance. It is significantly cheaper than in the US. Source: myself
  - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
    > If you earn more than a certain amount, you have to pay for your own private health insurance Do you fall back into Medicare if you start earning less afterwards?
    - paulstovell 3y ago
      You don’t actually have to pay for your own, but you are taxed an extra 0.5% if you don’t and earn above a certain amount. So in practice rather than pay the additional tax, people get private healthcare. If you then start earning below the threshold you can cancel the private healthcare and go back to the public system.
  - samsin 3y ago
    Slight correction, you have to pay a levy if you earn over ~90k/year and don’t have private hospital cover.
- forinti 3y ago
  I think the current housing crisis in the US should lead to a new social pact, but I don't see any movement towards one. I just don't understand why citizens of such a rich country would want to live so precariously.
- kevmo 3y ago
  "How will we pay for universal healthcare???" By massive inefficiencies being removed from our economy. Also, it'll literally be cheaper if you look at any other country that has implemented it. There will be a huge wave of innovation whenever the USA implements nationalized healthcare.
- Hammershaft 3y ago
  yeah it isn't just that it creates stress, bankruptcy, and suffering, it's genuinely an impediment to upgrading jobs and entrepreneurship.
Erikun 3y ago
This was my thought exactly (I’m Swedish). It sounds so brutal, and it was not just her own but her entire family’s!
adastra22 3y ago
Then she would have waited 10 months for a CT scan instead of 10 days.
- sjducb 3y ago
  No, lung cancer CT scans happen inside a week. I know this from experience. You might wait a year for a knee replacement.
  - stringsandchars 3y ago
    > lung cancer CT scans happen inside a week. I know this from experience. This is such a mischaracterization of the Swedish healthcare system, which is much more a lottery than your 'personal experience' suggests. I have my own experience of a service that is plagued by delays, inefficiency and outright dystopian suffering alongside other people who have had fast and efficient help. It's very much the luck of the draw - although sometimes I get the impression that social standing and even 'blondeness quotient' may help to get better care.
    - shakow 3y ago
      Noone is talking about Sweden, the thread is on the UK.
      - stringsandchars 3y ago
        > Noone is talking about Sweden, the thread is on the UK I was replying to a response that was specifically about Sweden. > Erikun > This was my thought exactly (I’m Swedish). It sounds so brutal, and it was not just her own but her entire family’s! > adastra22 > Then she would have waited 10 months for a CT scan instead of 10 days. I noticed that adastra22 was downvoted for this. I'm really not sure why, as it very closely mirrors a lot of people's experience with Swedish healthcare. There have been a lot of stories in the news over the last couple of years, but here's just one at the top of a simple google-search, about a kid that died because their scans were postponed (in Swedish): https://www.dagensmedicin.se/specialistomraden/cancer/barn-dog-efter-att-kontroll-skjutits-upp/ https://www.dagensmedicin.se/specialistomraden/cancer/barn-d... > Due to a lack of capacity at Karolinska University Hospital, the examination of a previously cancerous child was postponed. The child subsequently died of metastatic cancer.
switch007 3y ago
For non emergency care, slowly it is IMO. The private medical that comes with jobs is pretty reassuring for non emergency issues. It doesn’t cover an awful lot but I’ve found aspects of it very helpful over the years. (Referrals to specialists within a week or two, video/phone appointments with a GP same/next day) etc. I wouldn’t take a job that didn’t offer it (it’s pretty standard in our industry) It’s annoying that it’s taxed at your highest income tax band (20/40/45%) as if it were some kind of super luxury. Maybe 20 years ago, sure. I think the company has to pay insurance tax on the premium too! But yes it’s reassuring to know an emergency won’t ever bankrupt me.
odiroot 3y ago
I really wish NHS was as good in practice as people praise it online. Even seeing a GP is now a fight with the system.
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  I think it's vastly different depending on where you live. I've not had much trouble tbh. Worse experience in Denmark where I love now, but still not that bad
- scruple 3y ago
  It's still got to be better than dying in the streets because you couldn't find a job?
smsm42 3y ago
Most group health plans have COBRA continuation option, which means you can stay on the same plan for 18 to 36 months. If you haven't found work during that period, you'll likely qualify for one of the subsidized care packages. The catch of course is that COBRA premiums have to be paid out of pocket (or, given some foresight, HSA savings plan) and for a family plan they can be pretty costly (my last COBRA plan had $1600/month price tag). That said, if you had a well paid hi-tech job in a major company, you usually have some savings that can sustain this coverage for at least a several months until you find the next job. So the situation is not exactly like you lose access to care the moment you lose a job. There could be exceptional situation where you for some reason have no savings but your past income does not qualify you for subsidized plans, and in that case it can be tough, but it's not the usual case.

mooreds 3y ago

I live in the USA and always wonder what awesome companies or organizations are we missing out on because people are tied to their employer due to healthcare. I know at least one couple close to retirement that is waiting until one of them can get onto cobra for the months before they can get onto Medicare. (They just budgeted for cobra in their planning.) I like how the Aussies do it (or at least how they did it last I looked): basic public healthcare plan provided by the government, then supplemental plans offered by the employer as a benefit.

hestefisk 3y ago
Aussie here. Very few employers here offer health plans. Medicare is more or less like NHS in the UK. If you earn more than a certain amount, you have to pay for your own private health insurance. It is significantly cheaper than in the US. Source: myself
- rad_gruchalski 3y ago
  > If you earn more than a certain amount, you have to pay for your own private health insurance Do you fall back into Medicare if you start earning less afterwards?
  - paulstovell 3y ago
    You don’t actually have to pay for your own, but you are taxed an extra 0.5% if you don’t and earn above a certain amount. So in practice rather than pay the additional tax, people get private healthcare. If you then start earning below the threshold you can cancel the private healthcare and go back to the public system.
- samsin 3y ago
  Slight correction, you have to pay a levy if you earn over ~90k/year and don’t have private hospital cover.
forinti 3y ago
I think the current housing crisis in the US should lead to a new social pact, but I don't see any movement towards one. I just don't understand why citizens of such a rich country would want to live so precariously.
kevmo 3y ago
"How will we pay for universal healthcare???" By massive inefficiencies being removed from our economy. Also, it'll literally be cheaper if you look at any other country that has implemented it. There will be a huge wave of innovation whenever the USA implements nationalized healthcare.
Hammershaft 3y ago
yeah it isn't just that it creates stress, bankruptcy, and suffering, it's genuinely an impediment to upgrading jobs and entrepreneurship.

Erikun 3y ago

This was my thought exactly (I’m Swedish). It sounds so brutal, and it was not just her own but her entire family’s!

adastra22 3y ago

Then she would have waited 10 months for a CT scan instead of 10 days.

sjducb 3y ago
No, lung cancer CT scans happen inside a week. I know this from experience. You might wait a year for a knee replacement.
- stringsandchars 3y ago
  > lung cancer CT scans happen inside a week. I know this from experience. This is such a mischaracterization of the Swedish healthcare system, which is much more a lottery than your 'personal experience' suggests. I have my own experience of a service that is plagued by delays, inefficiency and outright dystopian suffering alongside other people who have had fast and efficient help. It's very much the luck of the draw - although sometimes I get the impression that social standing and even 'blondeness quotient' may help to get better care.
  - shakow 3y ago
    Noone is talking about Sweden, the thread is on the UK.
    - stringsandchars 3y ago
      > Noone is talking about Sweden, the thread is on the UK I was replying to a response that was specifically about Sweden. > Erikun > This was my thought exactly (I’m Swedish). It sounds so brutal, and it was not just her own but her entire family’s! > adastra22 > Then she would have waited 10 months for a CT scan instead of 10 days. I noticed that adastra22 was downvoted for this. I'm really not sure why, as it very closely mirrors a lot of people's experience with Swedish healthcare. There have been a lot of stories in the news over the last couple of years, but here's just one at the top of a simple google-search, about a kid that died because their scans were postponed (in Swedish): https://www.dagensmedicin.se/specialistomraden/cancer/barn-dog-efter-att-kontroll-skjutits-upp/ https://www.dagensmedicin.se/specialistomraden/cancer/barn-d... > Due to a lack of capacity at Karolinska University Hospital, the examination of a previously cancerous child was postponed. The child subsequently died of metastatic cancer.

switch007 3y ago

For non emergency care, slowly it is IMO. The private medical that comes with jobs is pretty reassuring for non emergency issues. It doesn’t cover an awful lot but I’ve found aspects of it very helpful over the years. (Referrals to specialists within a week or two, video/phone appointments with a GP same/next day) etc. I wouldn’t take a job that didn’t offer it (it’s pretty standard in our industry) It’s annoying that it’s taxed at your highest income tax band (20/40/45%) as if it were some kind of super luxury. Maybe 20 years ago, sure. I think the company has to pay insurance tax on the premium too! But yes it’s reassuring to know an emergency won’t ever bankrupt me.

odiroot 3y ago

I really wish NHS was as good in practice as people praise it online. Even seeing a GP is now a fight with the system.

RugnirViking 3y ago
I think it's vastly different depending on where you live. I've not had much trouble tbh. Worse experience in Denmark where I love now, but still not that bad
scruple 3y ago
It's still got to be better than dying in the streets because you couldn't find a job?

smsm42 3y ago

Most group health plans have COBRA continuation option, which means you can stay on the same plan for 18 to 36 months. If you haven't found work during that period, you'll likely qualify for one of the subsidized care packages. The catch of course is that COBRA premiums have to be paid out of pocket (or, given some foresight, HSA savings plan) and for a family plan they can be pretty costly (my last COBRA plan had $1600/month price tag). That said, if you had a well paid hi-tech job in a major company, you usually have some savings that can sustain this coverage for at least a several months until you find the next job. So the situation is not exactly like you lose access to care the moment you lose a job. There could be exceptional situation where you for some reason have no savings but your past income does not qualify you for subsidized plans, and in that case it can be tough, but it's not the usual case.