5 ms·

Argentina is definitely a case study on the importance of governance on the lives of everyday citizens. With its fertile lands and diverse landscapes with plent

Argentina is definitely a case study on the importance of governance on the lives of everyday citizens. With its fertile lands and diverse landscapes with plenty of mineral resources (including crude oil), there's no reason for it to be as impoverished as it is, other than mismanagement of the economy.

x3n0ph3n3 3y ago
Hopefully we're about to see that all turn around.
- vdaea 3y ago
  You don't get to change a country's culture just like that.
  - h0l0cube 3y ago
    I assume GP is referring to Javier Milei who wishes to assert top down culture change in the government. Though given he's equivocating now that he actually has to execute on his lofty reform agenda of the (near) abolition of government, it seems unlikely it's going to play out as he's imagined/portrayed. If he does succeed in the execution, it will be an interesting experiment in anarcho-capitalism, and the whole world is watching and waiting to make it an example either against or for the ideology
    - lebean 3y ago
      Anarcho-capitalism is the "it played out differently in my head" of political theories.
      - Astraco 3y ago
        That sounds more like marxism
        lebean 3y ago
        Marxism is the "we're almost there, just keep trying" of political theories.
        Astraco 3y ago
        To the bottom
  - remarkEon 3y ago
    Seems more possible than before. El Salvador has done a pretty substantial about face on safety.
    - angra_mainyu 3y ago
      Honestly, a lot of us South Americans look at El Salvador and Bukele with a mix of hope, envy, and respect.
      - remarkEon 3y ago
        Is that the general feeling in South America or just where you're at? In the US, depending on who you ask he's the next Pinochet, general ignorance here of South American history notwithstanding.
        angra_mainyu 3y ago
        General feeling of a somewhat wide sample of my social circle, that encompasses various South American countries, Europe, and the US. Same goes for the Salvadoreans I know. Overall I feel it's only a combination of foreign NGOs + a domestic progressive minority that criticize Bukele.
        el-salvador 3y ago
        I think El Salvador has a very well run media-and-public relations department that creates media and guidelines for publications in different markets (countries). It relies on social media, instead of relying on traditional public broadcasting like German's Deutsche Welle, British BBC or U.S Voice of America. This has given El Salvador lots of "soft-power". What I've seen is that it will talk about (well researched) the target audience's pain points and show how El Salvador solves them.
        remarkEon 3y ago
        Not sure I follow. You're saying El Salvador has an extensive and apparently successful propaganda apparatus that uses social media instead of state-controlled broadcasting. And thus the perspective of El Salvador held by those who do not live there is wrong? Not clear what you're suggesting.
  - darthrupert 3y ago
    Seeing as they voted Milei in, it was already changed.
angra_mainyu 3y ago
This is where years of bad governance gets you. Not to mention, the previous government kind of set some time bombs before passing the government over to Milei. https://www.ambito.com/opiniones/las-bombas-que-le-dejan-javier-milei-n5890679 https://www.ambito.com/opiniones/las-bombas-que-le-dejan-jav...
- theossuary 3y ago
  Or maybe from the CIA overthrowing your elected leader in favor of a military dictatorship? I feel like that'd leave scars on any country 50 years deep.
  - mancerayder 3y ago
    What's the causal relationship between that military dictatorship in the 70s and mismanagement and overspending today? What does scar mean here?
    - mancerayder 3y ago
      Downvoted for asking to dig deeper into the metaphor: scar.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Except the decline of Argentina started with the 1930 coup, which the US had nothing to do with. Then there were four other coups the US wasn’t involved in.
    - theossuary 3y ago
      Yes, but all sides were roughly equal in power until the US came in and provided support to the far right faction, leading to 30000-50000 deaths from state sponsored terrorism, known as the dirty wars. Of course Kissinger was involved, he always seemed to be, saying "If there are things that have to be done, you should do them quickly." Maybe you'd think that's all it was, tacit approval. But the final set of US military documents were finally declassified in 2020, showing the alliance between the far right dictators in the southern cone was brought together by the USA to murder their political enemies (Plan Condor). This was part of US's foreign policy of stopping communism no matter the cost. But in the process they completely threw the balance of power out of wack, and destroyed an entire generation of students, professors, and political opponents. It's sad that we know all of this now, no government is denying it. But for some reason there's still a huge group of people who refuse to believe the fucked up things the US did during its Banana Republic years. You could throw a dart as south America and find a fucked up thing the US did. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/world/americas/argentina-dictatorship-cia-documents.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/world/americas/argentina-... https://unredacted.com/2019/04/12/u-s-completes-historic-transfer-of-47000-declassified-documents-to-argentine-government-frinformsum-4-12-2019/ https://unredacted.com/2019/04/12/u-s-completes-historic-tra...
walthamstow 3y ago
There's an anti-Brexit/UK-doomster commenter on the FT who regularly points out that at the start of the 20th century Argentina was in the top 10 for GDP per capita but it was all destroyed by mismanagement, incompetence and corruption

x3n0ph3n3 3y ago

Hopefully we're about to see that all turn around.

vdaea 3y ago
You don't get to change a country's culture just like that.
- h0l0cube 3y ago
  I assume GP is referring to Javier Milei who wishes to assert top down culture change in the government. Though given he's equivocating now that he actually has to execute on his lofty reform agenda of the (near) abolition of government, it seems unlikely it's going to play out as he's imagined/portrayed. If he does succeed in the execution, it will be an interesting experiment in anarcho-capitalism, and the whole world is watching and waiting to make it an example either against or for the ideology
  - lebean 3y ago
    Anarcho-capitalism is the "it played out differently in my head" of political theories.
    - Astraco 3y ago
      That sounds more like marxism
      - lebean 3y ago
        Marxism is the "we're almost there, just keep trying" of political theories.
        Astraco 3y ago
        To the bottom
- remarkEon 3y ago
  Seems more possible than before. El Salvador has done a pretty substantial about face on safety.
  - angra_mainyu 3y ago
    Honestly, a lot of us South Americans look at El Salvador and Bukele with a mix of hope, envy, and respect.
    - remarkEon 3y ago
      Is that the general feeling in South America or just where you're at? In the US, depending on who you ask he's the next Pinochet, general ignorance here of South American history notwithstanding.
      - angra_mainyu 3y ago
        General feeling of a somewhat wide sample of my social circle, that encompasses various South American countries, Europe, and the US. Same goes for the Salvadoreans I know. Overall I feel it's only a combination of foreign NGOs + a domestic progressive minority that criticize Bukele.
      - el-salvador 3y ago
        I think El Salvador has a very well run media-and-public relations department that creates media and guidelines for publications in different markets (countries). It relies on social media, instead of relying on traditional public broadcasting like German's Deutsche Welle, British BBC or U.S Voice of America. This has given El Salvador lots of "soft-power". What I've seen is that it will talk about (well researched) the target audience's pain points and show how El Salvador solves them.
        remarkEon 3y ago
        Not sure I follow. You're saying El Salvador has an extensive and apparently successful propaganda apparatus that uses social media instead of state-controlled broadcasting. And thus the perspective of El Salvador held by those who do not live there is wrong? Not clear what you're suggesting.
- darthrupert 3y ago
  Seeing as they voted Milei in, it was already changed.

angra_mainyu 3y ago

This is where years of bad governance gets you. Not to mention, the previous government kind of set some time bombs before passing the government over to Milei. https://www.ambito.com/opiniones/las-bombas-que-le-dejan-javier-milei-n5890679 https://www.ambito.com/opiniones/las-bombas-que-le-dejan-jav...

theossuary 3y ago
Or maybe from the CIA overthrowing your elected leader in favor of a military dictatorship? I feel like that'd leave scars on any country 50 years deep.
- mancerayder 3y ago
  What's the causal relationship between that military dictatorship in the 70s and mismanagement and overspending today? What does scar mean here?
  - mancerayder 3y ago
    Downvoted for asking to dig deeper into the metaphor: scar.
- rayiner 3y ago
  Except the decline of Argentina started with the 1930 coup, which the US had nothing to do with. Then there were four other coups the US wasn’t involved in.
  - theossuary 3y ago
    Yes, but all sides were roughly equal in power until the US came in and provided support to the far right faction, leading to 30000-50000 deaths from state sponsored terrorism, known as the dirty wars. Of course Kissinger was involved, he always seemed to be, saying "If there are things that have to be done, you should do them quickly." Maybe you'd think that's all it was, tacit approval. But the final set of US military documents were finally declassified in 2020, showing the alliance between the far right dictators in the southern cone was brought together by the USA to murder their political enemies (Plan Condor). This was part of US's foreign policy of stopping communism no matter the cost. But in the process they completely threw the balance of power out of wack, and destroyed an entire generation of students, professors, and political opponents. It's sad that we know all of this now, no government is denying it. But for some reason there's still a huge group of people who refuse to believe the fucked up things the US did during its Banana Republic years. You could throw a dart as south America and find a fucked up thing the US did. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/world/americas/argentina-dictatorship-cia-documents.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/world/americas/argentina-... https://unredacted.com/2019/04/12/u-s-completes-historic-transfer-of-47000-declassified-documents-to-argentine-government-frinformsum-4-12-2019/ https://unredacted.com/2019/04/12/u-s-completes-historic-tra...

walthamstow 3y ago

There's an anti-Brexit/UK-doomster commenter on the FT who regularly points out that at the start of the 20th century Argentina was in the top 10 for GDP per capita but it was all destroyed by mismanagement, incompetence and corruption