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What’s to say this isn’t our own state sponsored propaganda? Source: “ The CIA and the New York Times: An unanswered question” - https://www.sciencedirect.com/

What’s to say this isn’t our own state sponsored propaganda? Source: “ The CIA and the New York Times: An unanswered question” - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0277939083900833 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/027793...

jerf 3y ago
There's an entire worldwide underground black market economy of these sorts of things. "Dark web" isn't just a meme. If there's any propaganda it's that it's just China. It's all over the place.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
arp242 3y ago
"An unanswered question" from 1951... Applying that to any current situation is foolish at best.
- cmmeur01 3y ago
  Can you explain why? Do you think the CIA has stopped doing these things?
mdhb 3y ago
HN truly brings out some of the dumbest shit in people the moment the topic moves even slightly away from technology.
- hodgesrm 3y ago
  Given the long, well-documented history of US government shenanigans [0, 1, 2], I would hope for a more thoughtful response to GP's comment. You would have to be somewhat naive to dismiss such claims. Or perhaps I misunderstood your comment ? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_... [2] https://theintercept.com/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-cleared-stories-cia-publication/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-...
  - obmelvin 3y ago
    In this particular instance, I think all evidence would suggest that "western" security companies have been extremely successful in developing exploits for iOS, Android, and plenty of other platforms. So it would make a lot of sense that China would develop additional tools and talents outside of gov orgs and gov owned companies. Genuine question, what does the US have to gain from making up this narrative? That's not always a useful question - obviously there are instances where something is true & someone also stands to gain. But in this case, cyber is the threat. If the NSA hacks you, does it really matter if they bought the exploit instead of developing it themselves?
    - hodgesrm 3y ago
      > I think all evidence would suggest that "western" security companies have been extremely successful in developing exploits for iOS, Android, and plenty of other platforms. Indeed. Other platforms include Stuxnet attacks Siemens software on PLCs controlling Iranian centrifuges. [0] As to your question, while I don't see an obvious reason why the US would make this up, I can see situations where government agencies might desire that this information be released. (For example to justify funding or to send signals to China.)
  - mdhb 3y ago
    You might actually be interested in this but last week the ex chief of operations for the CIA who was involved in both the Chile and Iran Contra fiascos sat down for a 3 hour chat about it amongst other topics in a fair amount of detail. If for no other reason than to just understand how those things came to be and what the chain of command actually looks like in real life covert action programs and how things go wrong because I think you and maybe a lot of people here who don’t have any real background on these things outside of what they heard on a Joe Rogan podcast for example are missing some important pieces of the puzzle which leads to ridiculous comments like the OP made. https://www.youtube.com/live/rCIjS6UfNuE https://www.youtube.com/live/rCIjS6UfNuE
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- wnevets 3y ago
  > the moment the topic moves even slightly away from technology. and sometimes when the topic is strictly about technology.
obmelvin 3y ago
Am I just overly critical, or does the lack of anything of substance in that abstract indicate that the paper doesn't really have anything to say?

jerf 3y ago

There's an entire worldwide underground black market economy of these sorts of things. "Dark web" isn't just a meme. If there's any propaganda it's that it's just China. It's all over the place.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

arp242 3y ago

"An unanswered question" from 1951... Applying that to any current situation is foolish at best.

cmmeur01 3y ago
Can you explain why? Do you think the CIA has stopped doing these things?

mdhb 3y ago

HN truly brings out some of the dumbest shit in people the moment the topic moves even slightly away from technology.

hodgesrm 3y ago
Given the long, well-documented history of US government shenanigans [0, 1, 2], I would hope for a more thoughtful response to GP's comment. You would have to be somewhat naive to dismiss such claims. Or perhaps I misunderstood your comment ? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_... [2] https://theintercept.com/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-cleared-stories-cia-publication/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-...
- obmelvin 3y ago
  In this particular instance, I think all evidence would suggest that "western" security companies have been extremely successful in developing exploits for iOS, Android, and plenty of other platforms. So it would make a lot of sense that China would develop additional tools and talents outside of gov orgs and gov owned companies. Genuine question, what does the US have to gain from making up this narrative? That's not always a useful question - obviously there are instances where something is true & someone also stands to gain. But in this case, cyber is the threat. If the NSA hacks you, does it really matter if they bought the exploit instead of developing it themselves?
  - hodgesrm 3y ago
    > I think all evidence would suggest that "western" security companies have been extremely successful in developing exploits for iOS, Android, and plenty of other platforms. Indeed. Other platforms include Stuxnet attacks Siemens software on PLCs controlling Iranian centrifuges. [0] As to your question, while I don't see an obvious reason why the US would make this up, I can see situations where government agencies might desire that this information be released. (For example to justify funding or to send signals to China.)
- mdhb 3y ago
  You might actually be interested in this but last week the ex chief of operations for the CIA who was involved in both the Chile and Iran Contra fiascos sat down for a 3 hour chat about it amongst other topics in a fair amount of detail. If for no other reason than to just understand how those things came to be and what the chain of command actually looks like in real life covert action programs and how things go wrong because I think you and maybe a lot of people here who don’t have any real background on these things outside of what they heard on a Joe Rogan podcast for example are missing some important pieces of the puzzle which leads to ridiculous comments like the OP made. https://www.youtube.com/live/rCIjS6UfNuE https://www.youtube.com/live/rCIjS6UfNuE
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
wnevets 3y ago
> the moment the topic moves even slightly away from technology. and sometimes when the topic is strictly about technology.

obmelvin 3y ago

Am I just overly critical, or does the lack of anything of substance in that abstract indicate that the paper doesn't really have anything to say?