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That's a new breed I could support. Just throw together a bunch of different breeds of smart dogs. They'll be much mror healthy than most breeds of dog.

sandworm101 3y ago
But creating any new breed, as in an actual breed rather than crossing mutts that will produce a variety of offspring, usually involved significant inbreeding. You need to weed out the genes that you don't want and concentrate on the few that define the breed in order to create a homogenous stock. Otherwise, in a couple generations the new offspring may pick start expressing the recessive genes and be nothing like the originals.
bongodongobob 3y ago
Afaik working breeds are the smartest and are already the most genetically diverse. Not sure if correlation or causation though.
- VHRanger 3y ago
  Correct - border collies are what he described. When kennel clubs formed in the late 19th century to standardize breeds, the border collie stood apart by only testing for herding ability and not selecting on anything else. Other breeds were selected mainly for looking like what that breed looks like. Turns out border collies are consistently classed the smartest dogs. They also have less of the typical genetic issues other breeds have
spike021 3y ago
On the other hand, smart dogs can be much more difficult to train. They can easily pick up what you're training them to do, but when you want them to actually do it the results can be far more mixed. This is because they're so smart that they seem to know whether doing the thing they were trained to do is worth it to them. Source: I have a Shiba Inu, which is simultaneously one of the smartest and most primitive of dog breeds. From the beginning he picked up tricks and other training extremely quickly, usually within a handful of repetitions. But he can be very independent and stubborn. He seems to know whether something is worth doing or not. Almost.....too smart.
- cj 3y ago
  > whether doing the thing they were trained to do is worth it to them. Also have a Shiba and 100% observe the same. I recently thought that he forgot certain commands, until I went on a trip and boarded him (which he hates), and the day I get back he's super excited and suddenly "remembers" how to do everything I thought he forgot how to do. Quirks like this is why I definitely don't recommend them as a first dog. They are great dogs but aren't the easiest breed to train.
- ozim 3y ago
  Same with my dog, it is a mixed breed and intelligent enough to learn quickly, but also intelligent enough to have "you want me to sit, out of the blue? nah I don't care". So we had to build loads of trust with it. Now it trusts me and my partner that if we ask it to do stuff we mean it and there is some reason for the behavior like watch out for a stranger or other dog or it something interesting will follow.
- eyelidlessness 3y ago
  My pup is similarly discerning and stubborn in deciding whether or when to obey certain commands, but I appreciate it most of the time. In many cases it’s part of how she communicates her emotional state, and it helps me understand her better.
- cameronh90 3y ago
  There’s a distinction between intelligence and biddability, and I believe they are mostly independent traits. Some dogs (and indeed most cats) will only use their intelligence to get what they want. Biddable dogs actually care what you want and try to please you, independently of whether it will directly benefit them. You could say their reward is seeing you happy (that’s not to say treats don’t also help!). The most trainable dogs are both intelligent and biddable.
VHRanger 3y ago
That's basically border collies

sandworm101 3y ago

But creating any new breed, as in an actual breed rather than crossing mutts that will produce a variety of offspring, usually involved significant inbreeding. You need to weed out the genes that you don't want and concentrate on the few that define the breed in order to create a homogenous stock. Otherwise, in a couple generations the new offspring may pick start expressing the recessive genes and be nothing like the originals.

bongodongobob 3y ago

Afaik working breeds are the smartest and are already the most genetically diverse. Not sure if correlation or causation though.

VHRanger 3y ago
Correct - border collies are what he described. When kennel clubs formed in the late 19th century to standardize breeds, the border collie stood apart by only testing for herding ability and not selecting on anything else. Other breeds were selected mainly for looking like what that breed looks like. Turns out border collies are consistently classed the smartest dogs. They also have less of the typical genetic issues other breeds have

spike021 3y ago

On the other hand, smart dogs can be much more difficult to train. They can easily pick up what you're training them to do, but when you want them to actually do it the results can be far more mixed. This is because they're so smart that they seem to know whether doing the thing they were trained to do is worth it to them. Source: I have a Shiba Inu, which is simultaneously one of the smartest and most primitive of dog breeds. From the beginning he picked up tricks and other training extremely quickly, usually within a handful of repetitions. But he can be very independent and stubborn. He seems to know whether something is worth doing or not. Almost.....too smart.

cj 3y ago
> whether doing the thing they were trained to do is worth it to them. Also have a Shiba and 100% observe the same. I recently thought that he forgot certain commands, until I went on a trip and boarded him (which he hates), and the day I get back he's super excited and suddenly "remembers" how to do everything I thought he forgot how to do. Quirks like this is why I definitely don't recommend them as a first dog. They are great dogs but aren't the easiest breed to train.
ozim 3y ago
Same with my dog, it is a mixed breed and intelligent enough to learn quickly, but also intelligent enough to have "you want me to sit, out of the blue? nah I don't care". So we had to build loads of trust with it. Now it trusts me and my partner that if we ask it to do stuff we mean it and there is some reason for the behavior like watch out for a stranger or other dog or it something interesting will follow.
eyelidlessness 3y ago
My pup is similarly discerning and stubborn in deciding whether or when to obey certain commands, but I appreciate it most of the time. In many cases it’s part of how she communicates her emotional state, and it helps me understand her better.
cameronh90 3y ago
There’s a distinction between intelligence and biddability, and I believe they are mostly independent traits. Some dogs (and indeed most cats) will only use their intelligence to get what they want. Biddable dogs actually care what you want and try to please you, independently of whether it will directly benefit them. You could say their reward is seeing you happy (that’s not to say treats don’t also help!). The most trainable dogs are both intelligent and biddable.

VHRanger 3y ago

That's basically border collies