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The key is to stop looking at progress as a war to be won, but as a value to be instilled and maintained in a society. We will always struggle to improve our so

The key is to stop looking at progress as a war to be won, but as a value to be instilled and maintained in a society. We will always struggle to improve our society and human civilization - it will never end. This may seem daunting or exhausting, but it's the reality of life. Cynicism undermines our motivation to make progress, and that is why so much disinformation is intended to muddy the waters and make people feel hopeless. The reality is - there is no way in hell any of us should want to have been born 1,000 or even 100 years ago and things will be much better in a century or a millennium if we keep pushing for it.

at_a_remove 3y ago
Progress in what direction? Is progress ever finished? It's an important question. If the answer is "no," then progress (whatever that means) must continue forever. This has quite a few disturbing implications. If the answer is "yes," then arises the question of "toward what? How will we know when we are done?"
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 3y ago
  Progress toward a cynicism free society. Sounds wonderful of course.
  - at_a_remove 3y ago
    Not sure if you're serious. However, I think such a society would be an utter paradise for the usual psychopaths. Sort of an The Invention of Lying concept. Cynicism is an adaptive response, it doesn't arise out of nowhere. Now, if you told me that you were going to fundamentally alter human nature such that nobody had any reason to be cynical, well ... but then other questions are raised.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  Why are the implications of answering no disturbing, and what are they? Only if you think we could reach some perfect and never changing state of being that all would agree on for all time would there eventually be no need for progress.
  - at_a_remove 3y ago
    Well, pick your poison. What do people mean by "progress" now? Okay, now push that trendline out for infinity. Some people speak of technological progress, others cultural, or ethical. Or sexual mores. Select one and imagine that continuing on. For as long as society lasts.
yeswedonowso 3y ago
A comic (in german) about: https://i.postimg.cc/fLSk9vVf/17644-ABSTRAKT-FINAL-Mail.png https://i.postimg.cc/fLSk9vVf/17644-ABSTRAKT-FINAL-Mail.png (direct link)
godelski 3y ago
> but as a value to be instilled and maintained in a society. I think __criticism__ (not complaining) is a critical component of democracies. Part of it is acting (at least to me) like a scientist. You have optimism that drives you and critique steers you. We can always do better and we'll never be perfect because nothing is static. We too have to change. I think it is also important to have a normalish distribution of ideas and beliefs. We can get value from looking at the extremes, but too much extreme is crippling (and especially if it is bimodal or multimodal with only extremes). In any democracy you want a few communists, fascists, anarchists, socialists, and so on to poke holes in your system. They're highly motivated to disrupt it, but that doesn't mean turn to them, that tells you what to patch.
deleted 3y ago
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at_a_remove 3y ago

Progress in what direction? Is progress ever finished? It's an important question. If the answer is "no," then progress (whatever that means) must continue forever. This has quite a few disturbing implications. If the answer is "yes," then arises the question of "toward what? How will we know when we are done?"

0xdeadbeefbabe 3y ago
Progress toward a cynicism free society. Sounds wonderful of course.
- at_a_remove 3y ago
  Not sure if you're serious. However, I think such a society would be an utter paradise for the usual psychopaths. Sort of an The Invention of Lying concept. Cynicism is an adaptive response, it doesn't arise out of nowhere. Now, if you told me that you were going to fundamentally alter human nature such that nobody had any reason to be cynical, well ... but then other questions are raised.
MattPalmer1086 3y ago
Why are the implications of answering no disturbing, and what are they? Only if you think we could reach some perfect and never changing state of being that all would agree on for all time would there eventually be no need for progress.
- at_a_remove 3y ago
  Well, pick your poison. What do people mean by "progress" now? Okay, now push that trendline out for infinity. Some people speak of technological progress, others cultural, or ethical. Or sexual mores. Select one and imagine that continuing on. For as long as society lasts.

yeswedonowso 3y ago

A comic (in german) about: https://i.postimg.cc/fLSk9vVf/17644-ABSTRAKT-FINAL-Mail.png https://i.postimg.cc/fLSk9vVf/17644-ABSTRAKT-FINAL-Mail.png (direct link)

godelski 3y ago

> but as a value to be instilled and maintained in a society. I think __criticism__ (not complaining) is a critical component of democracies. Part of it is acting (at least to me) like a scientist. You have optimism that drives you and critique steers you. We can always do better and we'll never be perfect because nothing is static. We too have to change. I think it is also important to have a normalish distribution of ideas and beliefs. We can get value from looking at the extremes, but too much extreme is crippling (and especially if it is bimodal or multimodal with only extremes). In any democracy you want a few communists, fascists, anarchists, socialists, and so on to poke holes in your system. They're highly motivated to disrupt it, but that doesn't mean turn to them, that tells you what to patch.

deleted 3y ago

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