4 ms·

Very true, and not just about privacy. Cynicism is flourishing in our societies for two reasons: -It's supported by those in a position of power, as a cynic

by mateo1 3y ago

Very true, and not just about privacy. Cynicism is flourishing in our societies for two reasons: -It's supported by those in a position of power, as a cynic is someone who stops trying to counter them, often successfully. -It enables us to stop putting effort towards a common goal without feeling guilt, as by telling ourselves "it's over" "we lost" "there's no point" we can just give up; trying to convince ourselves that our effort didn't mean anything. This article is a great reminder that our effort matters, and this is not a win/lose game. There's always more to lose, and we'll find out how much if we don't try. There's no giving up on life, there's no giving up on participating in society. We have to fight for our rights, even if it's small, inconvenient and seemingly thankless battles every day. This is what makes all the difference in the world.

santoshalper 3y ago
The key is to stop looking at progress as a war to be won, but as a value to be instilled and maintained in a society. We will always struggle to improve our society and human civilization - it will never end. This may seem daunting or exhausting, but it's the reality of life. Cynicism undermines our motivation to make progress, and that is why so much disinformation is intended to muddy the waters and make people feel hopeless. The reality is - there is no way in hell any of us should want to have been born 1,000 or even 100 years ago and things will be much better in a century or a millennium if we keep pushing for it.
- at_a_remove 3y ago
  Progress in what direction? Is progress ever finished? It's an important question. If the answer is "no," then progress (whatever that means) must continue forever. This has quite a few disturbing implications. If the answer is "yes," then arises the question of "toward what? How will we know when we are done?"
  - 0xdeadbeefbabe 3y ago
    Progress toward a cynicism free society. Sounds wonderful of course.
    - at_a_remove 3y ago
      Not sure if you're serious. However, I think such a society would be an utter paradise for the usual psychopaths. Sort of an The Invention of Lying concept. Cynicism is an adaptive response, it doesn't arise out of nowhere. Now, if you told me that you were going to fundamentally alter human nature such that nobody had any reason to be cynical, well ... but then other questions are raised.
  - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    Why are the implications of answering no disturbing, and what are they? Only if you think we could reach some perfect and never changing state of being that all would agree on for all time would there eventually be no need for progress.
    - at_a_remove 3y ago
      Well, pick your poison. What do people mean by "progress" now? Okay, now push that trendline out for infinity. Some people speak of technological progress, others cultural, or ethical. Or sexual mores. Select one and imagine that continuing on. For as long as society lasts.
- yeswedonowso 3y ago
  A comic (in german) about: https://i.postimg.cc/fLSk9vVf/17644-ABSTRAKT-FINAL-Mail.png https://i.postimg.cc/fLSk9vVf/17644-ABSTRAKT-FINAL-Mail.png (direct link)
- godelski 3y ago
  > but as a value to be instilled and maintained in a society. I think __criticism__ (not complaining) is a critical component of democracies. Part of it is acting (at least to me) like a scientist. You have optimism that drives you and critique steers you. We can always do better and we'll never be perfect because nothing is static. We too have to change. I think it is also important to have a normalish distribution of ideas and beliefs. We can get value from looking at the extremes, but too much extreme is crippling (and especially if it is bimodal or multimodal with only extremes). In any democracy you want a few communists, fascists, anarchists, socialists, and so on to poke holes in your system. They're highly motivated to disrupt it, but that doesn't mean turn to them, that tells you what to patch.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
hypeatei 3y ago
It sounds like you're describing apathy rather than cynicism. Being cynical just means someone is inherently distrustful. I do feel as though apathy is flourishing in modern society, though.
creer 3y ago
I don't see that cynicism is defeatist, passive or denies us progress. For one thing one can fight day-to-day corruption and rot with gusto but without despairing that it will ever be eradicated. There is satisfaction in progress. The cynic is NOT someone who has given up. Practical example 1: twitter has become a problem for you? Fine, move twitter to the bottom of the barrel and use some competitor - or change format altogether. Myspace or geocities were insurmontable artifacts in society. Even when they once felt like it. Being loud about it, as the cynic is, is not a bad thing. Giving up ON TWITTER is not a bad thing - and it is promoting progress (toward better platforms). Practical example 2: the two parties are roughly the same thing? Consistently vote for number 3. Number 3 rarely gets elected - of course - but sometimes it does happen (it's how Macron became president in France - no matter what Macron does or doesn't do, that was amazing). Number 3 wouldn't solve everything either. When - as usual - that does not happen, you have at least made space for the number 3s of the future. Always voting for the usual suspects, on the other hand, is guaranteed to perpetuate the problem. One strong positive I see in cynicism is the loud recognition that All is not for the best in the best of all possible worlds. THAT would be bullshit. There might be an assumption that the cynic is passive. Be a loud cynic. The cynic does not undermine anything but - when loud - reminds people that there is work to be done, and to do a little bit of it. The cynic is a strong positive (yes!), active voice compared to a sea of apathy. Now, click-baiting - that's a problem but that's not cynicism.

by mateo1 3y ago

santoshalper 3y ago

The key is to stop looking at progress as a war to be won, but as a value to be instilled and maintained in a society. We will always struggle to improve our society and human civilization - it will never end. This may seem daunting or exhausting, but it's the reality of life. Cynicism undermines our motivation to make progress, and that is why so much disinformation is intended to muddy the waters and make people feel hopeless. The reality is - there is no way in hell any of us should want to have been born 1,000 or even 100 years ago and things will be much better in a century or a millennium if we keep pushing for it.

at_a_remove 3y ago
Progress in what direction? Is progress ever finished? It's an important question. If the answer is "no," then progress (whatever that means) must continue forever. This has quite a few disturbing implications. If the answer is "yes," then arises the question of "toward what? How will we know when we are done?"
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 3y ago
  Progress toward a cynicism free society. Sounds wonderful of course.
  - at_a_remove 3y ago
    Not sure if you're serious. However, I think such a society would be an utter paradise for the usual psychopaths. Sort of an The Invention of Lying concept. Cynicism is an adaptive response, it doesn't arise out of nowhere. Now, if you told me that you were going to fundamentally alter human nature such that nobody had any reason to be cynical, well ... but then other questions are raised.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  Why are the implications of answering no disturbing, and what are they? Only if you think we could reach some perfect and never changing state of being that all would agree on for all time would there eventually be no need for progress.
  - at_a_remove 3y ago
    Well, pick your poison. What do people mean by "progress" now? Okay, now push that trendline out for infinity. Some people speak of technological progress, others cultural, or ethical. Or sexual mores. Select one and imagine that continuing on. For as long as society lasts.
yeswedonowso 3y ago
A comic (in german) about: https://i.postimg.cc/fLSk9vVf/17644-ABSTRAKT-FINAL-Mail.png https://i.postimg.cc/fLSk9vVf/17644-ABSTRAKT-FINAL-Mail.png (direct link)
godelski 3y ago
> but as a value to be instilled and maintained in a society. I think __criticism__ (not complaining) is a critical component of democracies. Part of it is acting (at least to me) like a scientist. You have optimism that drives you and critique steers you. We can always do better and we'll never be perfect because nothing is static. We too have to change. I think it is also important to have a normalish distribution of ideas and beliefs. We can get value from looking at the extremes, but too much extreme is crippling (and especially if it is bimodal or multimodal with only extremes). In any democracy you want a few communists, fascists, anarchists, socialists, and so on to poke holes in your system. They're highly motivated to disrupt it, but that doesn't mean turn to them, that tells you what to patch.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

hypeatei 3y ago

It sounds like you're describing apathy rather than cynicism. Being cynical just means someone is inherently distrustful. I do feel as though apathy is flourishing in modern society, though.

creer 3y ago

I don't see that cynicism is defeatist, passive or denies us progress. For one thing one can fight day-to-day corruption and rot with gusto but without despairing that it will ever be eradicated. There is satisfaction in progress. The cynic is NOT someone who has given up. Practical example 1: twitter has become a problem for you? Fine, move twitter to the bottom of the barrel and use some competitor - or change format altogether. Myspace or geocities were insurmontable artifacts in society. Even when they once felt like it. Being loud about it, as the cynic is, is not a bad thing. Giving up ON TWITTER is not a bad thing - and it is promoting progress (toward better platforms). Practical example 2: the two parties are roughly the same thing? Consistently vote for number 3. Number 3 rarely gets elected - of course - but sometimes it does happen (it's how Macron became president in France - no matter what Macron does or doesn't do, that was amazing). Number 3 wouldn't solve everything either. When - as usual - that does not happen, you have at least made space for the number 3s of the future. Always voting for the usual suspects, on the other hand, is guaranteed to perpetuate the problem. One strong positive I see in cynicism is the loud recognition that All is not for the best in the best of all possible worlds. THAT would be bullshit. There might be an assumption that the cynic is passive. Be a loud cynic. The cynic does not undermine anything but - when loud - reminds people that there is work to be done, and to do a little bit of it. The cynic is a strong positive (yes!), active voice compared to a sea of apathy. Now, click-baiting - that's a problem but that's not cynicism.