4 ms·

Anyone else remember less from reading an ebook compared to a physical one? This happens to me, and I think it's a similar explanation. I recall less of where I

by sowbug 3y ago

Anyone else remember less from reading an ebook compared to a physical one? This happens to me, and I think it's a similar explanation. I recall less of where I read something in an ebook. But in a physical book, I often remember that a phrase was at the top or middle or left side of a page, or that I was sitting in a particular chair when I read it. There's simply more of the brain working when I read a physical book, much as handwriting needs more of your body than typing.

mapreduce 3y ago
This absolutely happens to me. Happy to know I'm not the only one. > But in a physical book, I often remember that a phrase was at the top or middle or left side of a page, or that I was sitting in a particular chair when I read it. Exactly! And for reasons I cannot explain this helps me with better recall too! Like when I remember something I read, I know roughly where in the book that stuff was physically printed and what other stuff were around it and how they relate to each other. With ebook too I still know how things relate to each other but the clarity feels much less. I can see it much less in my mind's eye. I don't know why! And it drives me mad!
makeitdouble 3y ago
If that lack of spaciality bothers you, you could try reading ebooks on a bigger format. Using a 13" ipad or Surface, or another tablet/reader for instance allows to have two pages side by side (or one A4 full page) which is pretty close to the physical book format.
- lupire 3y ago
  That's still only 2D, not 3D navigation
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Was reacting to the "I often remember that a phrase was at the top or middle or left side of a page" part. In particular for technical documentation, having a vague memory of how the page looked like and where in that page the information is IMHO tremendously useful to get back quickly to the relevant parts. I personaly see less use of feeling the weight of the book or the physical artifacts (even for the position in the book, the ratio on the scroll bar is to me a good enough replacement).
mandmandam 3y ago
For sure, 100%. When I'm reading a book, some quiet part of me is always aware where in the book I am - from the weight distribution of the book, from the pressure on each palm and finger, from the visual feedback. I know before I pick up the book roughly where I left off, and my fingers often find the page on their own somehow. Recollecting info later, I might not even know exactly what I'm looking for - but I know where it is. Reading a digital book cuts a lot of that entirely out, and I can't help but feel that it diminishes the experience (before, during, and after) far more than people realize.
lupire 3y ago
You can fix this by holding a notebook while you read the ebook, and turn the pages as you read.
al_borland 3y ago
Yes. I find the physical book provides context, as I can feel how far into the book I am. So if in need to find something later I know roughly where to turn and what the pages looked like as I fan through. With audiobooks, I find I remember better if I’m walking somewhere new. It also provides context. I can recall details of the book by remembering where I was walking when I heard it.
wildermuthn 3y ago
Maybe the article covers this, but there an ancient memory technique (still used today) of “places and things”, also known as a memory palace. You put objects into spaces in your mind, then walk through that imaginary space to remember things. Turns out that humans are much better at remembering things when the context is spatial. Makes sense that this would apply to reading physical books.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  This is why we have terms like "On the other hand", "in this case", and similar. These are used in memory palace mostly.
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  I almost exclusively use spatial memory for programming. It's basically a flowchart I can zoom in or out of. A whole application or problem will be a forest I can walk through or fly above. Everything in a single context to avoid context switches.
potsandpans 3y ago
The thing that bothers me is that I can't flip back and forth the same way I can with a book. I'll frequently read something and want to go check something 100 or so pages back. It's so easy with a physical book you hold the place and scan backwards. Much more difficult with an ebook.
- jpcfl 3y ago
  I also tend to remember where a tidbit of information was physically. For some reason, details like "~50 pages back around the end of the paragraph in the top-right corner of the right page" will stick in my brain. Then I can quickly scan and parse out keywords to find what I'm looking for. This doesn't work reliably with e-books for me.
  - Izkata 3y ago
    This is exactly the theory I proposed in a previous post about handwriting aiding memory - that it's the paper and spacial memory assisting, not the handwriting itself. I did this often during school, looking up information in textbooks - I'd remember roughly the chapter/page, recognize the exact page, and know where on the page something was, even if I couldn't directly remember the thing itself.
    - michaelrpeskin 3y ago
      That’s how a “studied” physical chemistry. Before the test, I’d flip through the book and review the equations. My brain encoded it as location on the page. Then at the beginning of the test, I’d scribble down all of the relevant equations from pictures in my mind. During the test, I’d flip back to my index of equations to solve the problems.
- ta8645 3y ago
  That's simply a shameful indictment of ebook readers. They should be able to provide (almost) all the ergonomics of a paper book, and more.
kstrauser 3y ago
If so, only a tad. OTOH, I read so much more on an ebook that I think it's still a win.
kerkeslager 3y ago
> Anyone else remember less from reading an ebook compared to a physical one? [...] But in a physical book, I often remember that a phrase was at the top or middle or left side of a page, or that I was sitting in a particular chair when I read it. This seems weird to me. Does your ebook reader not have a "page" concept? I read China Mieville's Kraken on a Rakuten Kobo about 6 months ago and I distinctly remember the layout of the page where the protagonist does something that shows the culmination of his personal growth throughout the novel, or the page where you find out who is burning the past and why. I also remember distinctly where I was sitting when I read both of those passages. The biggest difference between the eBook and physical book experiences for me is the smell--I miss the smell of the binding glue when cracking open a new book, or the pleasantly-stale paper smell of an old library book. I'm not saying that the eBook and physical book experiences are equivalent at all. I'm just saying the specific examples you're pointing out seem odd to me. I'm also highly skeptical of the observations that come from a mind perceiving itself; one of the most striking takeaways from all the neuroscience I've read in the past few decades is that a lot of previous philosophy and psychology theory on how the brain works based on self-perception is blatantly just wrong.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  When I remember passages from books I definitely recall whether it was on the left or right leaf, top or bottom or center, and roughly how far through the book it was. If I read it on an e-reader I may have some recall of the vertical positioning but nothing else. I can take a book from a shelf that I only read once years ago and find a specific passage in a minute or two using this approach. For an ebook I have to try to remember a phrase and search for it, which doesn't always work if I remember just the physicality and sense of it, but not the specific phrasing.
- nescioquid 3y ago
  For me, the biggest difference between print and ebooks are: - I just won't carry around some door-stopper printed books, so I am less likely to read them in printed editions. - So much of what I want to read isn't in print anymore. I am in the habit of writing in the margins of print editions as I read, but I haven't started doing this for ebooks. One sometimes remembers the place on the page and page in the book, the smell, the tactile experience, but I can't regard these as real criticisms of ebooks or true benefits of printed editions. In my experience, having a digital copy of the book is, often enough, the difference between reading it and not reading it.
myth2018 3y ago
I can relate. I thought it was due distractions, but I usually get more distracted at the phone than I do at the computer and, yet, I get worse results out of my readings at the latter. An e-paper based ebook reader didn't improve the situation either.
bombcar 3y ago
This is pretty universal, and for some books (think: novels) it's not a major issue, but for referential works, I need the printed copy, and I do not want to switch versions. The perfection of ebooks will be when you have one physical book with virtual pages that can change, but other than that it feels like a real book.
MSFT_Edging 3y ago
I've always had a terrible memory for things I've just read, even pre-smart phone. I always liked the idea of E-books but I couldn't find a solution for easily exportable notes so I gave up and started using small post-its where i'd give a 2-3 word summary and align it with the line on the page. I still wish I had a unified way to take and export notes. If I could read a book on my ipad, make annotations and highlight, then export those highlighted excerpts + annotations to say, markdown, I'd be so happy.
jbarrs 3y ago
I've wondered whether this is connected to the olfactory system. Real books have a discernible smell about them, especially older books, and smell is said to be one of the best senses for memory recall. Do you remember less from an ebook because your ebook isn't smelly?

by sowbug 3y ago

mapreduce 3y ago

This absolutely happens to me. Happy to know I'm not the only one. > But in a physical book, I often remember that a phrase was at the top or middle or left side of a page, or that I was sitting in a particular chair when I read it. Exactly! And for reasons I cannot explain this helps me with better recall too! Like when I remember something I read, I know roughly where in the book that stuff was physically printed and what other stuff were around it and how they relate to each other. With ebook too I still know how things relate to each other but the clarity feels much less. I can see it much less in my mind's eye. I don't know why! And it drives me mad!

makeitdouble 3y ago

If that lack of spaciality bothers you, you could try reading ebooks on a bigger format. Using a 13" ipad or Surface, or another tablet/reader for instance allows to have two pages side by side (or one A4 full page) which is pretty close to the physical book format.

lupire 3y ago
That's still only 2D, not 3D navigation
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Was reacting to the "I often remember that a phrase was at the top or middle or left side of a page" part. In particular for technical documentation, having a vague memory of how the page looked like and where in that page the information is IMHO tremendously useful to get back quickly to the relevant parts. I personaly see less use of feeling the weight of the book or the physical artifacts (even for the position in the book, the ratio on the scroll bar is to me a good enough replacement).

mandmandam 3y ago

For sure, 100%. When I'm reading a book, some quiet part of me is always aware where in the book I am - from the weight distribution of the book, from the pressure on each palm and finger, from the visual feedback. I know before I pick up the book roughly where I left off, and my fingers often find the page on their own somehow. Recollecting info later, I might not even know exactly what I'm looking for - but I know where it is. Reading a digital book cuts a lot of that entirely out, and I can't help but feel that it diminishes the experience (before, during, and after) far more than people realize.

lupire 3y ago

You can fix this by holding a notebook while you read the ebook, and turn the pages as you read.

al_borland 3y ago

Yes. I find the physical book provides context, as I can feel how far into the book I am. So if in need to find something later I know roughly where to turn and what the pages looked like as I fan through. With audiobooks, I find I remember better if I’m walking somewhere new. It also provides context. I can recall details of the book by remembering where I was walking when I heard it.

wildermuthn 3y ago

Maybe the article covers this, but there an ancient memory technique (still used today) of “places and things”, also known as a memory palace. You put objects into spaces in your mind, then walk through that imaginary space to remember things. Turns out that humans are much better at remembering things when the context is spatial. Makes sense that this would apply to reading physical books.

bayindirh 3y ago
This is why we have terms like "On the other hand", "in this case", and similar. These are used in memory palace mostly.
kayodelycaon 3y ago
I almost exclusively use spatial memory for programming. It's basically a flowchart I can zoom in or out of. A whole application or problem will be a forest I can walk through or fly above. Everything in a single context to avoid context switches.

potsandpans 3y ago

The thing that bothers me is that I can't flip back and forth the same way I can with a book. I'll frequently read something and want to go check something 100 or so pages back. It's so easy with a physical book you hold the place and scan backwards. Much more difficult with an ebook.

jpcfl 3y ago
I also tend to remember where a tidbit of information was physically. For some reason, details like "~50 pages back around the end of the paragraph in the top-right corner of the right page" will stick in my brain. Then I can quickly scan and parse out keywords to find what I'm looking for. This doesn't work reliably with e-books for me.
- Izkata 3y ago
  This is exactly the theory I proposed in a previous post about handwriting aiding memory - that it's the paper and spacial memory assisting, not the handwriting itself. I did this often during school, looking up information in textbooks - I'd remember roughly the chapter/page, recognize the exact page, and know where on the page something was, even if I couldn't directly remember the thing itself.
  - michaelrpeskin 3y ago
    That’s how a “studied” physical chemistry. Before the test, I’d flip through the book and review the equations. My brain encoded it as location on the page. Then at the beginning of the test, I’d scribble down all of the relevant equations from pictures in my mind. During the test, I’d flip back to my index of equations to solve the problems.
ta8645 3y ago
That's simply a shameful indictment of ebook readers. They should be able to provide (almost) all the ergonomics of a paper book, and more.

kstrauser 3y ago

If so, only a tad. OTOH, I read so much more on an ebook that I think it's still a win.

kerkeslager 3y ago

> Anyone else remember less from reading an ebook compared to a physical one? [...] But in a physical book, I often remember that a phrase was at the top or middle or left side of a page, or that I was sitting in a particular chair when I read it. This seems weird to me. Does your ebook reader not have a "page" concept? I read China Mieville's Kraken on a Rakuten Kobo about 6 months ago and I distinctly remember the layout of the page where the protagonist does something that shows the culmination of his personal growth throughout the novel, or the page where you find out who is burning the past and why. I also remember distinctly where I was sitting when I read both of those passages. The biggest difference between the eBook and physical book experiences for me is the smell--I miss the smell of the binding glue when cracking open a new book, or the pleasantly-stale paper smell of an old library book. I'm not saying that the eBook and physical book experiences are equivalent at all. I'm just saying the specific examples you're pointing out seem odd to me. I'm also highly skeptical of the observations that come from a mind perceiving itself; one of the most striking takeaways from all the neuroscience I've read in the past few decades is that a lot of previous philosophy and psychology theory on how the brain works based on self-perception is blatantly just wrong.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
When I remember passages from books I definitely recall whether it was on the left or right leaf, top or bottom or center, and roughly how far through the book it was. If I read it on an e-reader I may have some recall of the vertical positioning but nothing else. I can take a book from a shelf that I only read once years ago and find a specific passage in a minute or two using this approach. For an ebook I have to try to remember a phrase and search for it, which doesn't always work if I remember just the physicality and sense of it, but not the specific phrasing.
nescioquid 3y ago
For me, the biggest difference between print and ebooks are: - I just won't carry around some door-stopper printed books, so I am less likely to read them in printed editions. - So much of what I want to read isn't in print anymore. I am in the habit of writing in the margins of print editions as I read, but I haven't started doing this for ebooks. One sometimes remembers the place on the page and page in the book, the smell, the tactile experience, but I can't regard these as real criticisms of ebooks or true benefits of printed editions. In my experience, having a digital copy of the book is, often enough, the difference between reading it and not reading it.

myth2018 3y ago

I can relate. I thought it was due distractions, but I usually get more distracted at the phone than I do at the computer and, yet, I get worse results out of my readings at the latter. An e-paper based ebook reader didn't improve the situation either.

bombcar 3y ago

This is pretty universal, and for some books (think: novels) it's not a major issue, but for referential works, I need the printed copy, and I do not want to switch versions. The perfection of ebooks will be when you have one physical book with virtual pages that can change, but other than that it feels like a real book.

MSFT_Edging 3y ago

I've always had a terrible memory for things I've just read, even pre-smart phone. I always liked the idea of E-books but I couldn't find a solution for easily exportable notes so I gave up and started using small post-its where i'd give a 2-3 word summary and align it with the line on the page. I still wish I had a unified way to take and export notes. If I could read a book on my ipad, make annotations and highlight, then export those highlighted excerpts + annotations to say, markdown, I'd be so happy.

jbarrs 3y ago

I've wondered whether this is connected to the olfactory system. Real books have a discernible smell about them, especially older books, and smell is said to be one of the best senses for memory recall. Do you remember less from an ebook because your ebook isn't smelly?