4 ms·

> Both times I've filed a dispute over debit card transactions, my bank immediately put the disputed amount back Your bank is nice, but relying on a corporatio

by jjav 3y ago

> Both times I've filed a dispute over debit card transactions, my bank immediately put the disputed amount back Your bank is nice, but relying on a corporation like a bank to be nice is risky and a fragile stance (they can change ToS any instant). With credit cards, the protections are written into law (regulation) so you don't need to hope they're nice to you, it's actually guaranteed.

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
stop with the FUD, debit cards also have federal laws protecting them and banks typically offer stronger fraud protections than even that.
- jjav 3y ago
  That would be nice, can you point me at that federal regulation so I can learn about it? > banks typically offer stronger That's irrelevant since banks can change their ToS. But if you have a link to the federal law/regulation please share.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    typical online alpha, you posted that challenge with full confidence didn't you? lets see what ftc.gov has to say about it https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-money-back-after-i-discover-an-unauthorized-transaction-or-money-missing-from-my-bank-account-en-1017/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-mon... oh what's that, there are federal protections surrounding debit cards? imagine going into this conversation actually knowing what you're talking about. /inb4 "I did some quick googling, let me explain how I'm going to try and change my argument to save face"
    - jjav 3y ago
      The tone of your comment is not welcome on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html However, I appreciate the CFPB link. Having worked in fintech I'm familiar with them. The link does corroborate that debit card protections are weaker than credit card protections. They have with more aggressive reporting requirements (2 days) and higher potential liability ($500, or even as much as the full amount in some circumstances, though unlikely). This document has a handy table that compares the protections side by side. As you can see, debit card protections are weaker. Scroll down to the table "Federal Protections for Unauthorized Transactions": https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards-safer-than-debit-cards/ https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards...
      - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
        > They have with more aggressive reporting requirements (2 days) between 2 days and 60. read it closer. this is called backpedaling, as I predicted. we've now gone from "prove debit cards have federal protections!" to "but but but ... they're different!". they're protected mr fintech family who had no idea.
Karellen 3y ago
> relying on a corporation like a bank to be nice is risky and a fragile stance (they can change ToS any instant). Banks are a lot more tightly regulated that most other businesses, and (in my experience) don't generally have "we can change the ToS whenever we want, however we want" clauses in their customer agreements. All the banks I've dealt with say they have to give you 30 days notice of any ToS changes, and with language like "if we reasonably consider that the change is favorable to you" (or similar). If your bank has more leeway in changing its ToS on you, I would suggest having a look around at the terms other banks offer.
ssl-3 3y ago
Banks have to hold up their end of the customer agreement (contract), and the terms of that agreement are enforced by contract law. I've yet to see a bank's customer agreement wherein the contractually-defined protections for debit cards varied significantly from the legally-defined protections for credit cards. (I haven't made an exhaustive study of this, but I have read the fine print for every new bank account that I've considered.) If you can find a customer agreement that is meaningfully different in this aspect, then: I'm all ears.
- jjav 3y ago
  > Banks have to hold up their end of the customer agreement (contract), and the terms of that agreement are enforced by contract law. Right, but they can change those unilaterally whenever they feel like it. Multiple times a year I'll get an updated terms of service document from this or that bank.
  - ssl-3 3y ago
    So you can point to a bank's a customer agreement that is meaningfully different in this aspect compared to federal requirements for credit cards, then? Or maybe you're just spilling FUD? Just because a thing can change, doesn't mean that it will. (It doesn't even mean that it has ever changed.)

by jjav 3y ago

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago

stop with the FUD, debit cards also have federal laws protecting them and banks typically offer stronger fraud protections than even that.

jjav 3y ago
That would be nice, can you point me at that federal regulation so I can learn about it? > banks typically offer stronger That's irrelevant since banks can change their ToS. But if you have a link to the federal law/regulation please share.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  typical online alpha, you posted that challenge with full confidence didn't you? lets see what ftc.gov has to say about it https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-money-back-after-i-discover-an-unauthorized-transaction-or-money-missing-from-my-bank-account-en-1017/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-get-my-mon... oh what's that, there are federal protections surrounding debit cards? imagine going into this conversation actually knowing what you're talking about. /inb4 "I did some quick googling, let me explain how I'm going to try and change my argument to save face"
  - jjav 3y ago
    The tone of your comment is not welcome on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html However, I appreciate the CFPB link. Having worked in fintech I'm familiar with them. The link does corroborate that debit card protections are weaker than credit card protections. They have with more aggressive reporting requirements (2 days) and higher potential liability ($500, or even as much as the full amount in some circumstances, though unlikely). This document has a handy table that compares the protections side by side. As you can see, debit card protections are weaker. Scroll down to the table "Federal Protections for Unauthorized Transactions": https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards-safer-than-debit-cards/ https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards...
    - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
      > They have with more aggressive reporting requirements (2 days) between 2 days and 60. read it closer. this is called backpedaling, as I predicted. we've now gone from "prove debit cards have federal protections!" to "but but but ... they're different!". they're protected mr fintech family who had no idea.

Karellen 3y ago

> relying on a corporation like a bank to be nice is risky and a fragile stance (they can change ToS any instant). Banks are a lot more tightly regulated that most other businesses, and (in my experience) don't generally have "we can change the ToS whenever we want, however we want" clauses in their customer agreements. All the banks I've dealt with say they have to give you 30 days notice of any ToS changes, and with language like "if we reasonably consider that the change is favorable to you" (or similar). If your bank has more leeway in changing its ToS on you, I would suggest having a look around at the terms other banks offer.

ssl-3 3y ago

Banks have to hold up their end of the customer agreement (contract), and the terms of that agreement are enforced by contract law. I've yet to see a bank's customer agreement wherein the contractually-defined protections for debit cards varied significantly from the legally-defined protections for credit cards. (I haven't made an exhaustive study of this, but I have read the fine print for every new bank account that I've considered.) If you can find a customer agreement that is meaningfully different in this aspect, then: I'm all ears.

jjav 3y ago
> Banks have to hold up their end of the customer agreement (contract), and the terms of that agreement are enforced by contract law. Right, but they can change those unilaterally whenever they feel like it. Multiple times a year I'll get an updated terms of service document from this or that bank.
- ssl-3 3y ago
  So you can point to a bank's a customer agreement that is meaningfully different in this aspect compared to federal requirements for credit cards, then? Or maybe you're just spilling FUD? Just because a thing can change, doesn't mean that it will. (It doesn't even mean that it has ever changed.)