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Shaun Maguire could't be promoted for being white, at Google
- neverrroot 3y agoGoogle is one of the most important companies in the IT sector. This being HN, there’s a legitimate interest in bringing this out. Also, I have searched HN for similar posts from the past, there are such posts, that are not flagged.
- neverrroot 3y ago“I’m really not supposed to tell you this. It could get me fired. But you’re one of the highest performing people here but I can’t promote you right now because I have a quota. My hands are tied. You’ll get the next slot. Please be patient. I’m really sorry.” — Google https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1760885099984261564 https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1760885099984261564
- quelltext 3y agoSo, where's the actual story? I don't use X so maybe it's buried somewhere else. Even the tweet you mentioned wasn't directly discoverable from the submission. But it looks like he already tweeted months ago that this had happened. What's actually new info now?
- SushiHippie 3y ago> FYI this was just my teaser story… not even close to the worst of it https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1760908574870368513 https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1760908574870368513
- quelltext 3y agoOkay, let's see then I guess? I guess this HN submission was just a teaser as well then. Maybe another one will reveal something actually interesting.
- nickthegreek 3y agoExactly why I flagged. I am interested in hearing the story, not the teaser to the story.
- Xlythe 3y agoGoogle, internally, is pretty up front that there's a forced distribution (or quota) for performance ratings and promotions. It's for budgetary reasons, and it's not strictly enforced, but it's published and often referred to. Past a certain level, a business justification is also needed in addition to merit. The quota the manager was referring to was very likely that.
- jacobriis 3y ago[flagged]
- neverrroot 3y agoWhy it's bad not to be able to promote someone based on performance because of having to fulfill quotas? Well, it's bad, because it shifts the focus away from merit and performance.
- rmbyrro 3y agoIt's bad because it's racist and a moral regression for a society to accept it. Not to mention it's a crime. Similarly to why it's bad to assassinate an employee. It's not because of performance...
- quelltext 3y ago> Not to mention it's a crime. Doesn't that heavily depend on where the employee is based? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_Un... Quotas are legal in many states. Granted the author is likely based in CA. Still, let's keep away from absolutes. FWIW I also don't support discrimination in whichever direction. However, so far the story is "there was some kind of quota delaying my promotion". Is that really news or surprising? I guess it is surprising someone just stated it to them directly but this whole thing isn't particularly juicy yet.
- rmbyrro 3y agoIt is a crime [1]. You don't have to hurt someone's career prospects on the basis of skin color to apply affirmative action. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_and_James_Byrd_Jr._Hate_Crimes_Prevention_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_and_James_By...
- France_is_bacon 3y ago>Talent is equally distributed ?????????????? Alrighty then.
- quelltext 3y agoSaying they have a quota doesn't mean "because you are white". I mean, it has a similar effect but it's not like we don't know quotas exist and are largely tolerated, are they not? Are quotas outright illegal in the US? Do we know it was a racial quota? Now, gender quota would still not be better for the author but this is still lacking in novelty.
- endomorphosis 3y agoYes, Quotas are illegal in the USA.
- newbie578 3y agoWhat I don’t understand is why do startups and other upcoming competitors not use this to their advantage? Google’s loss is your gain. If they are pushing DEI, won’t you as a startup then gain for hiring based on meritocracry?
- zx8080 3y agoIf the company can promote others but not the one who performs enough for the promotion, then it's a clear signal: performance is not an important factor for promotion anymore.
- rmbyrro 3y agoWhich explains the ridiculously bad performance of their products. And getting worse everyday.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rmbyrro 3y agoThis is why I'm not even considering migrating my OpenAI usage to Gemini. OpenAI has already replaced ~95% of Google Search for me. This company is rotting from inside, perpetrating racism, creating societal divide, disrespecting human values, and delivering sub-par products. Our grandfathers literally died to end this kind of shit. And these 21th century clowns want to bring it back.
- drcongo 3y agoWhy should anyone be promoted just because they're white?
- neverrroot 3y agoThat's just as wrong, and clearly not the case here. The promotion was not done due to a "quota" in spite of him being "one of the highest performing people [there]".
- drcongo 3y agoThe thread title, and indeed the quoted tweet, both make the same claim: "promoted for being white" and "I was told I can’t be promoted for being a white man". Nobody should be promoted just because they're white.
- neverrroot 3y agoThat is why he was not promoted, which does not imply, that that would have been the reason for him to be promoted. As you can clearly see, the performance was such, that he should have been promoted, but he wasn't for being white.
- drcongo 3y agoWhat do you think "promoted for being white" means?
- neverrroot 3y agoBeing promoted on the lone merit of being white, or while all else being equal (merit wise), with the only difference being the skin color (i.e. white over something else)
- ZeroGravitas 3y agoWas he radicalised into supporting Tucker Carlson and Andrew Tate by this experience or has he always been that kind of guy?
- pixxel 3y ago[flagged]
- quickslowdown 3y agoCurious how you would define falling down that particular rabbit hole, if it's not being radicalized.
- manuelabeledo 3y agoAccording to his LinkedIn, he didn't even work at Google. I'd say he's just another alt right drama queen.
- jjackson5324 3y agoHis LinkedIn literally says he worked at Google Ventures. I’d say you’re just not very good at reading comprehension.
- manuelabeledo 3y agoAh, I didn’t see that, you’re right. Still a drama queen tho.
- FreakLegion 3y agoGoogle Ventures, not Google. That probably seems like a nitpick but they separated almost a decade ago. He's an okay-ish VC on a ladder with few rungs, not a mid-level software engineer who got passed over for L6.
- Simulacra 3y agoAmazing how this gets flagged and falls off the front page…
- neverrroot 3y agoI have no idea how this stuff works, do you know?
- nickthegreek 3y agoI flagged it because when I click on the link I see: > @shaunmmaguire > Fuck it, > This happened at Google > That company is an absolute trash can dumpster fire And that is it. If there is more content there, it is behind a sign in wall.
- neverrroot 3y agoJust opened the link in all browsers I have, without being logged in on X in any of them. There is on all of them a quoted tweet clearly and completely visible. That quoted tweet/post reads: “Should I go public with the story about the time I was told I can’t be promoted for being a white man?” List of browsers I tried: - Firefox, Chromium under Linux - Safari, Chromium under macOS - Firefox, Safari and embedded browser( inside of HACK app) on iOS/iPhone - Firefox, Chrome on Android
- nickthegreek 3y agoWhat am I supposed to gain from those 2 tweets? Not the actual story behind either of those people's proclamation. Hence, the flag. If there was a blog post or story accessible to the public, I would not have flagged.
- neverrroot 3y agoThis is the source of the truth, it’s the place where the statement that could be covered by a hypothetical blog post or story would be coming from. It’s also the post that lies beyond the title of this post on HN. Really, I don’t know what would beat the linked content: it’s the source of the statement.
- Simulacra 3y agoThis is why you should probably record every meeting you have with your boss about performance. Imagine if he had gotten this on tape, saying that I'm sorry it's because you're white, I can't promote you. That's a great lawsuit.