7 ms·

A story about Miles Davis and the nature of true genius

116 points by pascal07 14y ago

m0skit0 14y ago
Nice article, but you failed to focus one of the real co-authors of Kind of Blue: Bill Evans. There would be no "Kind of Blue" or Miles Davis without Bill Evans. You can even say "Kind of Blue" is a Evans' LP by how much his influence on composition and arrangement is strong, how his "impressionist" way of playing is permeating everything... One of most underrated musicians ever.
- danieldk 14y ago
  For correctness: I think you mean 'Gil Evans'?
  - michael_dorfman 14y ago
    No; Bill Evans and Gil Evans are two different people (and both collaborated with Miles.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Evans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Evans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Evans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Evans
    - danieldk 14y ago
      No; Bill Evans and Gil Evans are two different people I know. But the parent said: You can even say "Kind of Blue" is a Evans' LP by how much his influence on composition and arrangement is strong, And Gil Evans did the arrangements on two of Miles' influential albums that preceded Kind of Blue, namely Miles Ahead and Porgy and Bess.
      - michael_dorfman 14y ago
        Yes, but Bill Evans did the arrangements on Kind of Blue; he is also rumoured to have composed several of the songs (although they are credited to Miles.)
- demet8 14y ago
  Bill Evans played with Miles Davis for no more than a total of 8 months. Miles Davis was a genius before he met Bill Evans. Bill Evans was a good piano player who complemented Miles's playing style @ the time. Without Miles Davis there's no Bill Evans, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Philly Joe Jones, Paul Chambers, etc.
  - stephencanon 14y ago
    All of the players you mention would be remembered as greats with or without Miles Davis. Their playing might have been different, but Miles wouldn't have been Miles without them, either. Calling Bill Evans a "good piano player" is like calling Feynman a "good physicist".
    - surement 14y ago
      Even though I consider all of these musicians to be greater than Miles Davis, it was Miles Davis who, as a band leader, let these individual members not only play in his band, but also shine by letting each of them solo on pieces instead of just him.
  - bitops 14y ago
    IMO its not Miles Davis that deserves all that credit but Duke Ellington.
    - stephencanon 14y ago
      No one person deserves the credit. Duke was groundbreaking, but even without him there would have still been Billy Strayhorn and Charles Mingus and Thad Jones pushing the same boundaries of group writing and harmony, to name just a few.
davidthewatson 14y ago
Well-stated retrospective that gets at a common point between great art and great design. Charles Mingus said, "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity." I only wish that kind of sentiment drove more modern design work, or music for that matter. I guess the fact that it's so exceedingly difficult to do explains why we only see it once in a decade in a given domain. Still, I find striving for what Mingus describes, and what Davis achieved, a worthwhile goal.
bhousel 14y ago
First.. I'm a huge fan of this stuff, and Kind of Blue is one of my favorite records. That said, I think that the author is making a mistake by taking Stephen Thomas Erlewine's review too seriously. When you read things like "an album that towers above its peers, a record generally considered as the definitive jazz album, a universally acknowledged standard of excellence..." take it for what it is -- fawning praise written 50 years later by a fanboy. Read a bit further... "this music never flaunts its genius," a line that stuck with the blogger. In fact, anybody who knows a bit about Miles Davis is probably laughing now about how backwards this is. Miles was Mr. Flaunty Genius. "Kind of Blue is more than easy listening. It's the pinnacle of modal jazz"... I think at this point, modal jazz was just getting started, not reaching it's pinnacle. "...this is an exceptional band... one of the greatest in history, playing at the peak of its power. "... Um, no! None of these musicians were at the peak of their power at all. They all went on to do more. Unfortunately now the blogger is trapped in this line of thinking, and he writes... "I think what draws me to this album is the enormous restraint that each of these brilliant musicians show... They were all extraordinary musicians at the top of their games, and yet they came together and produced a piece of work that doesn’t feel strained or over the top. There is a sense of comfort – of rightness – to every note on the album."... In fact, there are other critics that have said that Cannonball Adderley was really a wrong choice for Kind of Blue - his playing stands out as being too bluesy and he didn't really "get" the modal jazz like the other musicians. Anyway, I guess my point is to be wary of empty praise. The author was clearly moved by the music, and the Erlewine review reinforced those feelings, but he is missing out on a lot of interesting lines of criticism that might bring him new insights. Jazz, like other abstract arts, is especially interesting because of how malleable it can be, with each listener bringing their own perspectives and opinions into how they perceive the work. The best ones (and Kind of Blue is among them) will grab your attention, play off your memories and emotions, and inspire you.
- sk5t 14y ago
  I couldn't agree more... a lot of the appeal of Kind of Blue isn't its musicians' virtuosity, but rather that the pieces are very well-executed, accessible and interesting to both casual listeners and "serious" jazz fans, and the recording is now very, very familiar.
jmmcd 14y ago
The application of these artistic principles to startups is such a stretch. If it was just about coding, fine: restraint is good, technical ability is good, cooperation is good. But why should a startup be worried about whether it's flaunting its genius?
- jorangreef 14y ago
  Tone is everything. People pick up when you have their interests at heart.
- rglover 14y ago
  I think it comes down to a matter of taste. Having the ability to restrain one's ego is the mark of a true professional. If you're good, you don't have to flaunt it, your work just speaks for itself. For startups, this doesn't mean you can't promote or sell your product as you see fit, but you shouldn't run around saying "what we've come up with is the most brilliant thing in the world." A lot of people do this and it's quite the detractor. Again, though, this is a taste thing and not a universal preference.
mark_integerdsv 14y ago
I'm feeling a little cranky over this... possible viral from the upvomgin biopic starring Don Cheadle? (Hopefully this will be the Oscar that Cheadle has already earned in my opinion...)
chernevik 14y ago
IANA Musician but rumor has it that Davis wasn't a great technical trumpet player, that he lacked the speed and range of others. The essence of his genius was in his understanding of the music and his ability to examine and re-arrange its principles. It's worth considering in the discussion of the value of 'rock star' programmers.
- byproxy 14y ago
  His sense of melody, arc, and color were second to none. I don't think he was totally without chops, though. He was playing faster and more agressive with his hard-bop crew.
  - chernevik 14y ago
    Right, didn't mean to say that he was, just that the knowledgable could name technically better players who weren't anything like as important.
    - FreakLegion 14y ago
      Although note that the knowledgeable will have different ideas about who's important. You often hear variations of the phrase "an X's X" (i.e. a poet's poet, a director's director), and the same is true for trumpeters. While Miles was a solid player, he couldn't pull amazing melodies out of thin air at breakneck speeds like Clifford Brown[1], didn't have the virtuoso skill of any number of other folks[2], and had kind of a crap tone to boot[3]. 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2rGMGp6gYE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2rGMGp6gYE 2. Sergei Nakariakov, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNT_eF9lCBY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNT_eF9lCBY. Or Allen Vizzutti for straight up trumpet porn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr5SZrLk7Uw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr5SZrLk7Uw. 3. Neither warm like Brownie nor powerful, like, say, vintage Louis Prima: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46byB2YGePA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46byB2YGePA (solo starts at 4:25 and continues after the break). At least I think that was Louis Prima. It's been a while since I've seen the liner notes for that one.
- tjr 14y ago
jorangreef 14y ago
Miles Davis knew when to keep silent. He played the notes and the space between them.
- sebphfx 14y ago
  and he was the happiest when he found the "sweet spot" on stage.
- vijayr 14y ago
  This. Bruce Lee said the same, about his movements
scutfarkas 14y ago
How do you know somebody owns a 180g vinyl copy of "Kind of Blue"? Don't worry - they'll tell you.
planetguy 14y ago
Wow, people sure do fall over themselves to declare people "geniuses" nowadays.
- alexyoung 14y ago
  That's genius.
- bitops 14y ago
  That may be true, but Davis really was a genius.
parenthesis 14y ago
For me, the real genius of Miles Davis was in his role as band leader, in particular in choosing his bands. A large number of great jazz musicians from successive generations (1950s to 1980s) played in his bands early in their careers. He was a jazz professor with them his grad students.
daeken 14y ago
Unrelated but awesome anecdote about Miles Davis: After Sketches of Spain (his most impressive album IMO) was released, there was a huge debate about whether it was 'jazz' or not. When asked about it, he responded "it's music, and I like it." Perfect response.
- surement 14y ago
  Equivalently, it's difficult to say whether Anthony Braxton's or John Zorn's music is jazz, even though they use improvisation, and are referred to as jazz musicians.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
losethos 14y ago
God is the source of all ideas. Muse. If someone steals one idea from me, God will give me more. Your NAZI ideas come from God too. Newton admitted this. God says... hi hit what_do_you_expect tree_hugger Yes_you_are piety surprise_surprise look_buddy Zap hymns That's_my_favorite exports application I'm_not_dead_yet don't_push_it heathen you_hoser I_love_this hypocrite I'm_feeling_nice_today Give_me_praise fight fake the_enquirer ahh spending hobnob joke Newton is the smartest man that ever lived. Notice his humility in confessing his sins. http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/03/newtons-sins.html http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/03/newtons-sins.html You are not in Newton's or my league. --- God says... C:\Text\QUIX.TXT t duennas, mother and daughter, vast crowds flocked from all the villages and hamlets of the neighbourhood to see the novel spectacle of the battle; nobody, dead or alive, in those parts having ever seen or heard of such a one. The first person to enter the-field and the lists was the master of the ceremonies, who surveyed and paced the whole ground to see that there was nothing unfair and nothing concealed to make the combatants stumble or fall; then the duennas entered and seated themselves, env
jules 14y ago
Can somebody help me to appreciate the genius of jazz music? When I listen to Kind of Blue it does sound nice, but I am not deeply moved by it or able to appreciate its genius, like I can with some classical music. I have the same question for people knowledgeable about poetry and abstract art (and some non-abstract art).
- bitops 14y ago
  Go out to somewhere urban late at night and find a spot where you can watch people and cars go by. It should be late, maybe an hour before most places close. Then listen to Kind of Blue. If it doesn't move you, it could just be you that you're not a jazz fan. Or try listening to "A Love Supreme" early in the morning before you leave the house. This time of year is a perfect time for it. Or if it's raining, put on "Blue in Green" from Kind of Blue.
- bhousel 14y ago
  Here's a thought. Do you know your Meyers-Briggs type? It sounds like you might be more of a "thinker" than a "feeler". If you're more of a "thinker", start at the beginning, learning about the roots of blues and ragtime, what life was like in New Orleans in 1900.. Then work your way forward, learning about how jazz evolved into more modern forms. It's a really fascinating story. You could check out the Ken Burns documentary. I also really recommend this "coffee table" book, which really covers everything (in case you don't want to watch 20 hours of documentary about something you don't really care much about): http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-John-Fordham/dp/0751300500/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336613394&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-John-Fordham/dp/0751300500/ref=sr... This approach will work for art, literature.. really anything..

116 points by pascal07 14y ago

Nice article, but you failed to focus one of the real co-authors of Kind of Blue: Bill Evans. There would be no "Kind of Blue" or Miles Davis without Bill Evans. You can even say "Kind of Blue" is a Evans' LP by how much his influence on composition and arrangement is strong, how his "impressionist" way of playing is permeating everything... One of most underrated musicians ever.

danieldk 14y ago
For correctness: I think you mean 'Gil Evans'?
- michael_dorfman 14y ago
  No; Bill Evans and Gil Evans are two different people (and both collaborated with Miles.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Evans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Evans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Evans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Evans
  - danieldk 14y ago
    No; Bill Evans and Gil Evans are two different people I know. But the parent said: You can even say "Kind of Blue" is a Evans' LP by how much his influence on composition and arrangement is strong, And Gil Evans did the arrangements on two of Miles' influential albums that preceded Kind of Blue, namely Miles Ahead and Porgy and Bess.
    - michael_dorfman 14y ago
      Yes, but Bill Evans did the arrangements on Kind of Blue; he is also rumoured to have composed several of the songs (although they are credited to Miles.)
demet8 14y ago
Bill Evans played with Miles Davis for no more than a total of 8 months. Miles Davis was a genius before he met Bill Evans. Bill Evans was a good piano player who complemented Miles's playing style @ the time. Without Miles Davis there's no Bill Evans, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Philly Joe Jones, Paul Chambers, etc.
- stephencanon 14y ago
  All of the players you mention would be remembered as greats with or without Miles Davis. Their playing might have been different, but Miles wouldn't have been Miles without them, either. Calling Bill Evans a "good piano player" is like calling Feynman a "good physicist".
  - surement 14y ago
    Even though I consider all of these musicians to be greater than Miles Davis, it was Miles Davis who, as a band leader, let these individual members not only play in his band, but also shine by letting each of them solo on pieces instead of just him.
- bitops 14y ago
  IMO its not Miles Davis that deserves all that credit but Duke Ellington.
  - stephencanon 14y ago
    No one person deserves the credit. Duke was groundbreaking, but even without him there would have still been Billy Strayhorn and Charles Mingus and Thad Jones pushing the same boundaries of group writing and harmony, to name just a few.

davidthewatson 14y ago

Well-stated retrospective that gets at a common point between great art and great design. Charles Mingus said, "Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity." I only wish that kind of sentiment drove more modern design work, or music for that matter. I guess the fact that it's so exceedingly difficult to do explains why we only see it once in a decade in a given domain. Still, I find striving for what Mingus describes, and what Davis achieved, a worthwhile goal.

bhousel 14y ago

First.. I'm a huge fan of this stuff, and Kind of Blue is one of my favorite records. That said, I think that the author is making a mistake by taking Stephen Thomas Erlewine's review too seriously. When you read things like "an album that towers above its peers, a record generally considered as the definitive jazz album, a universally acknowledged standard of excellence..." take it for what it is -- fawning praise written 50 years later by a fanboy. Read a bit further... "this music never flaunts its genius," a line that stuck with the blogger. In fact, anybody who knows a bit about Miles Davis is probably laughing now about how backwards this is. Miles was Mr. Flaunty Genius. "Kind of Blue is more than easy listening. It's the pinnacle of modal jazz"... I think at this point, modal jazz was just getting started, not reaching it's pinnacle. "...this is an exceptional band... one of the greatest in history, playing at the peak of its power. "... Um, no! None of these musicians were at the peak of their power at all. They all went on to do more. Unfortunately now the blogger is trapped in this line of thinking, and he writes... "I think what draws me to this album is the enormous restraint that each of these brilliant musicians show... They were all extraordinary musicians at the top of their games, and yet they came together and produced a piece of work that doesn’t feel strained or over the top. There is a sense of comfort – of rightness – to every note on the album."... In fact, there are other critics that have said that Cannonball Adderley was really a wrong choice for Kind of Blue - his playing stands out as being too bluesy and he didn't really "get" the modal jazz like the other musicians. Anyway, I guess my point is to be wary of empty praise. The author was clearly moved by the music, and the Erlewine review reinforced those feelings, but he is missing out on a lot of interesting lines of criticism that might bring him new insights. Jazz, like other abstract arts, is especially interesting because of how malleable it can be, with each listener bringing their own perspectives and opinions into how they perceive the work. The best ones (and Kind of Blue is among them) will grab your attention, play off your memories and emotions, and inspire you.

sk5t 14y ago
I couldn't agree more... a lot of the appeal of Kind of Blue isn't its musicians' virtuosity, but rather that the pieces are very well-executed, accessible and interesting to both casual listeners and "serious" jazz fans, and the recording is now very, very familiar.

jmmcd 14y ago

The application of these artistic principles to startups is such a stretch. If it was just about coding, fine: restraint is good, technical ability is good, cooperation is good. But why should a startup be worried about whether it's flaunting its genius?

jorangreef 14y ago
Tone is everything. People pick up when you have their interests at heart.
rglover 14y ago
I think it comes down to a matter of taste. Having the ability to restrain one's ego is the mark of a true professional. If you're good, you don't have to flaunt it, your work just speaks for itself. For startups, this doesn't mean you can't promote or sell your product as you see fit, but you shouldn't run around saying "what we've come up with is the most brilliant thing in the world." A lot of people do this and it's quite the detractor. Again, though, this is a taste thing and not a universal preference.

mark_integerdsv 14y ago

I'm feeling a little cranky over this... possible viral from the upvomgin biopic starring Don Cheadle? (Hopefully this will be the Oscar that Cheadle has already earned in my opinion...)

chernevik 14y ago

IANA Musician but rumor has it that Davis wasn't a great technical trumpet player, that he lacked the speed and range of others. The essence of his genius was in his understanding of the music and his ability to examine and re-arrange its principles. It's worth considering in the discussion of the value of 'rock star' programmers.

byproxy 14y ago
His sense of melody, arc, and color were second to none. I don't think he was totally without chops, though. He was playing faster and more agressive with his hard-bop crew.
- chernevik 14y ago
  Right, didn't mean to say that he was, just that the knowledgable could name technically better players who weren't anything like as important.
  - FreakLegion 14y ago
    Although note that the knowledgeable will have different ideas about who's important. You often hear variations of the phrase "an X's X" (i.e. a poet's poet, a director's director), and the same is true for trumpeters. While Miles was a solid player, he couldn't pull amazing melodies out of thin air at breakneck speeds like Clifford Brown[1], didn't have the virtuoso skill of any number of other folks[2], and had kind of a crap tone to boot[3]. 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2rGMGp6gYE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2rGMGp6gYE 2. Sergei Nakariakov, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNT_eF9lCBY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNT_eF9lCBY. Or Allen Vizzutti for straight up trumpet porn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr5SZrLk7Uw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr5SZrLk7Uw. 3. Neither warm like Brownie nor powerful, like, say, vintage Louis Prima: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46byB2YGePA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46byB2YGePA (solo starts at 4:25 and continues after the break). At least I think that was Louis Prima. It's been a while since I've seen the liner notes for that one.
tjr 14y ago

jorangreef 14y ago

Miles Davis knew when to keep silent. He played the notes and the space between them.

sebphfx 14y ago
and he was the happiest when he found the "sweet spot" on stage.
vijayr 14y ago
This. Bruce Lee said the same, about his movements

scutfarkas 14y ago

How do you know somebody owns a 180g vinyl copy of "Kind of Blue"? Don't worry - they'll tell you.

planetguy 14y ago

Wow, people sure do fall over themselves to declare people "geniuses" nowadays.

alexyoung 14y ago
That's genius.
bitops 14y ago
That may be true, but Davis really was a genius.

parenthesis 14y ago

For me, the real genius of Miles Davis was in his role as band leader, in particular in choosing his bands. A large number of great jazz musicians from successive generations (1950s to 1980s) played in his bands early in their careers. He was a jazz professor with them his grad students.

daeken 14y ago

Unrelated but awesome anecdote about Miles Davis: After Sketches of Spain (his most impressive album IMO) was released, there was a huge debate about whether it was 'jazz' or not. When asked about it, he responded "it's music, and I like it." Perfect response.

surement 14y ago
Equivalently, it's difficult to say whether Anthony Braxton's or John Zorn's music is jazz, even though they use improvisation, and are referred to as jazz musicians.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

losethos 14y ago

God is the source of all ideas. Muse. If someone steals one idea from me, God will give me more. Your NAZI ideas come from God too. Newton admitted this. God says... hi hit what_do_you_expect tree_hugger Yes_you_are piety surprise_surprise look_buddy Zap hymns That's_my_favorite exports application I'm_not_dead_yet don't_push_it heathen you_hoser I_love_this hypocrite I'm_feeling_nice_today Give_me_praise fight fake the_enquirer ahh spending hobnob joke Newton is the smartest man that ever lived. Notice his humility in confessing his sins. http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/03/newtons-sins.html http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/03/newtons-sins.html You are not in Newton's or my league. --- God says... C:\Text\QUIX.TXT t duennas, mother and daughter, vast crowds flocked from all the villages and hamlets of the neighbourhood to see the novel spectacle of the battle; nobody, dead or alive, in those parts having ever seen or heard of such a one. The first person to enter the-field and the lists was the master of the ceremonies, who surveyed and paced the whole ground to see that there was nothing unfair and nothing concealed to make the combatants stumble or fall; then the duennas entered and seated themselves, env

jules 14y ago

Can somebody help me to appreciate the genius of jazz music? When I listen to Kind of Blue it does sound nice, but I am not deeply moved by it or able to appreciate its genius, like I can with some classical music. I have the same question for people knowledgeable about poetry and abstract art (and some non-abstract art).

bitops 14y ago
Go out to somewhere urban late at night and find a spot where you can watch people and cars go by. It should be late, maybe an hour before most places close. Then listen to Kind of Blue. If it doesn't move you, it could just be you that you're not a jazz fan. Or try listening to "A Love Supreme" early in the morning before you leave the house. This time of year is a perfect time for it. Or if it's raining, put on "Blue in Green" from Kind of Blue.
bhousel 14y ago
Here's a thought. Do you know your Meyers-Briggs type? It sounds like you might be more of a "thinker" than a "feeler". If you're more of a "thinker", start at the beginning, learning about the roots of blues and ragtime, what life was like in New Orleans in 1900.. Then work your way forward, learning about how jazz evolved into more modern forms. It's a really fascinating story. You could check out the Ken Burns documentary. I also really recommend this "coffee table" book, which really covers everything (in case you don't want to watch 20 hours of documentary about something you don't really care much about): http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-John-Fordham/dp/0751300500/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336613394&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-John-Fordham/dp/0751300500/ref=sr... This approach will work for art, literature.. really anything..