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I'm proud of them, but the Internet is international - without broad acceptance, we run the risk of effectively having distinct National Internets with differen

by benwerd 14y ago

I'm proud of them, but the Internet is international - without broad acceptance, we run the risk of effectively having distinct National Internets with different rules and regulations. That scares me a bit, because the potential is still to have unhindered communications between anyone, anywhere. Net neutrality should be built into the fabric of the Internet through better technology - legislation clearly isn't working.

MrJagil 14y ago
"Net neutrality should be built into the fabric of the Internet through better technology - legislation clearly isn't working." There was a lot of coverage about some kind of mesh network being developed in response to SOPA (reddit related?). Is it still going strong?
- rmc 14y ago
  You might be thinking of this http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetplan/ http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetplan/ . I don't think it's ever gotten off the ground and is still people talking about it online.
  - wmf 14y ago
    The FNF has made more progress, but still fairly bogged down in organizational busywork. http://www.freenetworkmovement.org/commons/index.php?title=FreedomTower http://www.freenetworkmovement.org/commons/index.php?title=F...
wladimir 14y ago
Still, it is useful if at least one country legislates it. It means that organizations that rely on net neutrality, or strive to achieve net neutrality through technological means, could move to that country and do their work unhindered. No bullying ISPs etc...
- Roritharr 14y ago
  Another reason why Appsterdam rocks!
bad_user 14y ago
There are already "national Internets". This is just the nature of the beast, the Internet being mostly decentralized. And btw, when it comes to net neutrality, I don't think it's such a good idea, because I'm a firm believer in a free market and government regulations only hinder competition. Net neutrality may be a solution in the U.S. where monopolies are a bigger issue and where you don't have much choice in regards to your net provider depending on location, but in Europe the competition is pretty tough. For instance people criticized the net neutrality proposal pushed by Google because it exempts mobile providers, however in my country there are 3 major carriers (plus a couple of smaller ones), each of them with mostly the same network coverage, each of them with 3G data plans, each of them operating on the same standards and compatible frequencies. Also under our law, you can always interrupt a contract, the only penalty being that you have to give back the subsidized amount for the remaining period (e.g. the price of the phone minus the initial price, divided by 24 and multiplied by the number of remaining months), but if you have a contract with no subsidy, there are no penalties involved. And since you can also move your number from one carrier to another, there is absolutely no lock-in effect, other than the bureaucracy involved. Also, for locked phones, the carrier must unlock it for free once the subsidy is paid. The competition is pretty though, and the PrePay plans here would make you jealous ;-) And in my area I also have not less than 3 major broadband providers which are national, so the same arguments hold for landlines. In this light, in the context of cut-throat competition, yet another government regulation simply does not make sense.
- benwerd 14y ago
  This is getting off-topic for Hacker News, but you need some legislation to maintain the parameters of a free market. Net neutrality is the fair basis of an online market.
  - bad_user 14y ago
    Legislation is useful as long as it promotes consumer choice. But if you pay close attention, legislation in the U.S. is also the reason for why there is a lack of choice for consumers in regards to Internet providers. I invite you to read this article: http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-6.html http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-6.html

by benwerd 14y ago

MrJagil 14y ago

"Net neutrality should be built into the fabric of the Internet through better technology - legislation clearly isn't working." There was a lot of coverage about some kind of mesh network being developed in response to SOPA (reddit related?). Is it still going strong?

rmc 14y ago
You might be thinking of this http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetplan/ http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetplan/ . I don't think it's ever gotten off the ground and is still people talking about it online.
- wmf 14y ago
  The FNF has made more progress, but still fairly bogged down in organizational busywork. http://www.freenetworkmovement.org/commons/index.php?title=FreedomTower http://www.freenetworkmovement.org/commons/index.php?title=F...

wladimir 14y ago

Still, it is useful if at least one country legislates it. It means that organizations that rely on net neutrality, or strive to achieve net neutrality through technological means, could move to that country and do their work unhindered. No bullying ISPs etc...

Roritharr 14y ago
Another reason why Appsterdam rocks!

bad_user 14y ago

There are already "national Internets". This is just the nature of the beast, the Internet being mostly decentralized. And btw, when it comes to net neutrality, I don't think it's such a good idea, because I'm a firm believer in a free market and government regulations only hinder competition. Net neutrality may be a solution in the U.S. where monopolies are a bigger issue and where you don't have much choice in regards to your net provider depending on location, but in Europe the competition is pretty tough. For instance people criticized the net neutrality proposal pushed by Google because it exempts mobile providers, however in my country there are 3 major carriers (plus a couple of smaller ones), each of them with mostly the same network coverage, each of them with 3G data plans, each of them operating on the same standards and compatible frequencies. Also under our law, you can always interrupt a contract, the only penalty being that you have to give back the subsidized amount for the remaining period (e.g. the price of the phone minus the initial price, divided by 24 and multiplied by the number of remaining months), but if you have a contract with no subsidy, there are no penalties involved. And since you can also move your number from one carrier to another, there is absolutely no lock-in effect, other than the bureaucracy involved. Also, for locked phones, the carrier must unlock it for free once the subsidy is paid. The competition is pretty though, and the PrePay plans here would make you jealous ;-) And in my area I also have not less than 3 major broadband providers which are national, so the same arguments hold for landlines. In this light, in the context of cut-throat competition, yet another government regulation simply does not make sense.

benwerd 14y ago
This is getting off-topic for Hacker News, but you need some legislation to maintain the parameters of a free market. Net neutrality is the fair basis of an online market.
- bad_user 14y ago
  Legislation is useful as long as it promotes consumer choice. But if you pay close attention, legislation in the U.S. is also the reason for why there is a lack of choice for consumers in regards to Internet providers. I invite you to read this article: http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-6.html http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-6.html