4 ms·

I was a little bit surprised that there are no EU-based/originated payment networks. How comes? At least, in Japan, there is JCB, and in China there is UnionPa

I was a little bit surprised that there are no EU-based/originated payment networks. How comes? At least, in Japan, there is JCB, and in China there is UnionPay / Alipay?

jltsiren 3y ago
There used to be Eurocard, but it merged with MasterCard a couple of decades ago. Most countries had domestic debit card networks. Some still have, while others replaced theirs with Visa / MasterCard debit cards.
- wenyuanyu 3y ago
  How much is the credit card fee and debit card fee in Europe? In China, it is capped to 0.6% and could be as low as 0.3% or less I believe.
  - pgeorgi 3y ago
    Capped at 0.3% for credit card transactions, 0.2% for debit card transactions See https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/04/20/capping-fees-card-based-payments/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015...
    - qwytw 3y ago
      That's somewhat deceiving because these regulations don't include bank fees (about 1% in total is pretty standard)
mattigames 3y ago
The banks already work just fine there, the little edge some startup may have is not worth the hassel
TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago
Europe used to have two significant card networks of its own: Maestro (owned by Mastercard) and Visa Europe (previously owned by various European banks). But Maestro is dead now and, a few years ago, Visa Europe merged into Visa. There were a bunch of national networks but they're slowly dying I think. The UK's Switch debit card network got rebranded as Maestro and then killed, for example. The UK still has something called Link however (used for ATM withdrawals and I think nothing else).
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
  >There were a bunch of national networks but they're slowly dying I think. True. It's CB in France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupement_des_Cartes_Bancaires_CB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupement_des_Cartes_Bancaire... Fewer and fewer banks supports it. It's obvious when looking at the neobanks' offers: https://www.zupimages.net/up/24/07/zbua.png https://www.zupimages.net/up/24/07/zbua.png ("Réseau CB: Oui [yes] / Non [no]"). A shame as the whole French payment network now relies almost solely on Visa, a $500T US giant.
- riffraff 3y ago
  the italian "pagobancomat" system[0] (pay from your CC with an ATM card) is still alive and well, all ATMs and POS support it together with visa/mastercard. There's also an online payment system but I've not seen it used. Most plastic you get these days supports both that and visa/maestro. [0] an extension of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancomat_(interbank_network) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancomat_(interbank_network)
akshayt 3y ago
Some countries have their own local ones but currently none that work across the entire EU AFAIK. EMPSA is working on uniting them
qwytw 3y ago
SEPA is basically free and instant. There are some shortcomings but even with them there is hardly demand for for any other service (why would consumers decide to use anything but banks transfer and/or credit/debit cards when the fees are so low?)
blasphemers 3y ago
This podcast explains the history pretty well. https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/visa https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/visa

I was a little bit surprised that there are no EU-based/originated payment networks. How comes? At least, in Japan, there is JCB, and in China there is UnionPay / Alipay?

jltsiren 3y ago

There used to be Eurocard, but it merged with MasterCard a couple of decades ago. Most countries had domestic debit card networks. Some still have, while others replaced theirs with Visa / MasterCard debit cards.

wenyuanyu 3y ago
How much is the credit card fee and debit card fee in Europe? In China, it is capped to 0.6% and could be as low as 0.3% or less I believe.
- pgeorgi 3y ago
  Capped at 0.3% for credit card transactions, 0.2% for debit card transactions See https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/04/20/capping-fees-card-based-payments/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015...
  - qwytw 3y ago
    That's somewhat deceiving because these regulations don't include bank fees (about 1% in total is pretty standard)

mattigames 3y ago

The banks already work just fine there, the little edge some startup may have is not worth the hassel

TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago

Europe used to have two significant card networks of its own: Maestro (owned by Mastercard) and Visa Europe (previously owned by various European banks). But Maestro is dead now and, a few years ago, Visa Europe merged into Visa. There were a bunch of national networks but they're slowly dying I think. The UK's Switch debit card network got rebranded as Maestro and then killed, for example. The UK still has something called Link however (used for ATM withdrawals and I think nothing else).

rcMgD2BwE72F 3y ago
>There were a bunch of national networks but they're slowly dying I think. True. It's CB in France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupement_des_Cartes_Bancaires_CB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupement_des_Cartes_Bancaire... Fewer and fewer banks supports it. It's obvious when looking at the neobanks' offers: https://www.zupimages.net/up/24/07/zbua.png https://www.zupimages.net/up/24/07/zbua.png ("Réseau CB: Oui [yes] / Non [no]"). A shame as the whole French payment network now relies almost solely on Visa, a $500T US giant.
riffraff 3y ago
the italian "pagobancomat" system[0] (pay from your CC with an ATM card) is still alive and well, all ATMs and POS support it together with visa/mastercard. There's also an online payment system but I've not seen it used. Most plastic you get these days supports both that and visa/maestro. [0] an extension of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancomat_(interbank_network) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancomat_(interbank_network)

akshayt 3y ago

Some countries have their own local ones but currently none that work across the entire EU AFAIK. EMPSA is working on uniting them

qwytw 3y ago

SEPA is basically free and instant. There are some shortcomings but even with them there is hardly demand for for any other service (why would consumers decide to use anything but banks transfer and/or credit/debit cards when the fees are so low?)

blasphemers 3y ago

This podcast explains the history pretty well. https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/visa https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/visa