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I’m not sure I agree it’s hard to create specific things. The tooling, imo, feels infant, but promising. And it can layer upon itself. Right now control net ca

I’m not sure I agree it’s hard to create specific things. The tooling, imo, feels infant, but promising. And it can layer upon itself. Right now control net can do pretty good character pose control, but you have to make the pose. Well… next step is to generate the pose with a request. Same for faces.

robenkleene 3y ago
When you're editing in an NLE, you can pick the exact frame where your transition begins. When you're editing in DAW, you can change the volume by tiny fractions of a decibel, for a single frequency. Just about every piece of mainstream media (e.g., excluding social media) has had every single frame, and every second of sound, polished to absolute perfection (or at least one sound engineer or editors perception of it). How is AI going to attain the level of polish (via control) we expect from mainstream media?
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  I’m not clear what you mean. If you’re imagining that AI tools mean it has to be a straight text -> output model that’s not correct. They are very much iterative transformations.
  - robenkleene 3y ago
    There's an enormous golf between just being iterative and control down to the last decibel/frame. Professional creative software is design around this fine-grained control.
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      Ok but what’s your point? This is not outside the capabilities of AI enabled tooling. You can adjust whatever you want, at whatever granularity you want. The goal is of course to make this unnecessary, because adjusting a single element doesn’t benefit much from ai. But there’s nothing say you can’t?
      - robenkleene 3y ago
        "Not outside the capabilities" isn't a strong argument, we want amazing, ten times better than the current tools, e.g., to use the language typical when describing what it takes to beat an incumbent tool. The point is to look at the patterns in how creative work is performed, it's generally about fine-grained control. E.g., the commonality across a musician, film editor, animator, music producer, photographer, painter, etc... if you're making the claim that suddenly AI is going to replace this need for fine-grained control then I'd put the burden of proof on the supporter of the AI tool to describe why the fine-grained control suddenly won't be important.
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        I’m not making that claim. I’m claiming that AI tools can do fine grained too.
        robenkleene 3y ago
        I thought that's what you were saying here? "The goal is of course to make this unnecessary, because adjusting a single element doesn’t benefit much from ai." (And re AI also doing fine-grained yeah addressed that above: Just showing up isn't impressive, it needs to be absolutely amazing at fine-grained control to be a real creative tool in my opinion.)
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        Ugh. Ok 1) you can go as fine grained as you want. This is not a limitation. 2) going fine grained beyond a certain point is stupid. You don’t edit individual pixels in high resolution art. The tools allow it, but it is not a part of practical workflows. 3) the goal is of course to make fine grained adjustments not needed, because the fine grained details are well executed with high level executions. Same as experienced in (2). If you still think this is worth debating I’d request a specific example of a practical detail that you think is fine grained and not servable by AI. A frame of a film is just an image and is easily handled. A decibel is not a thing.

robenkleene 3y ago

When you're editing in an NLE, you can pick the exact frame where your transition begins. When you're editing in DAW, you can change the volume by tiny fractions of a decibel, for a single frequency. Just about every piece of mainstream media (e.g., excluding social media) has had every single frame, and every second of sound, polished to absolute perfection (or at least one sound engineer or editors perception of it). How is AI going to attain the level of polish (via control) we expect from mainstream media?

jncfhnb 3y ago
I’m not clear what you mean. If you’re imagining that AI tools mean it has to be a straight text -> output model that’s not correct. They are very much iterative transformations.
- robenkleene 3y ago
  There's an enormous golf between just being iterative and control down to the last decibel/frame. Professional creative software is design around this fine-grained control.
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    Ok but what’s your point? This is not outside the capabilities of AI enabled tooling. You can adjust whatever you want, at whatever granularity you want. The goal is of course to make this unnecessary, because adjusting a single element doesn’t benefit much from ai. But there’s nothing say you can’t?
    - robenkleene 3y ago
      "Not outside the capabilities" isn't a strong argument, we want amazing, ten times better than the current tools, e.g., to use the language typical when describing what it takes to beat an incumbent tool. The point is to look at the patterns in how creative work is performed, it's generally about fine-grained control. E.g., the commonality across a musician, film editor, animator, music producer, photographer, painter, etc... if you're making the claim that suddenly AI is going to replace this need for fine-grained control then I'd put the burden of proof on the supporter of the AI tool to describe why the fine-grained control suddenly won't be important.
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        I’m not making that claim. I’m claiming that AI tools can do fine grained too.
        robenkleene 3y ago
        I thought that's what you were saying here? "The goal is of course to make this unnecessary, because adjusting a single element doesn’t benefit much from ai." (And re AI also doing fine-grained yeah addressed that above: Just showing up isn't impressive, it needs to be absolutely amazing at fine-grained control to be a real creative tool in my opinion.)
        jncfhnb 3y ago
        Ugh. Ok 1) you can go as fine grained as you want. This is not a limitation. 2) going fine grained beyond a certain point is stupid. You don’t edit individual pixels in high resolution art. The tools allow it, but it is not a part of practical workflows. 3) the goal is of course to make fine grained adjustments not needed, because the fine grained details are well executed with high level executions. Same as experienced in (2). If you still think this is worth debating I’d request a specific example of a practical detail that you think is fine grained and not servable by AI. A frame of a film is just an image and is easily handled. A decibel is not a thing.