4 ms·

It's really unfortunate that the tech companies set the precedent in the first place by pushing hard political agendas into their policies and moderation biases

It's really unfortunate that the tech companies set the precedent in the first place by pushing hard political agendas into their policies and moderation biases. If it was truly neutral in the first place we would not be having this conversation. All the people complaining only now about Twitter doing this are part of the problem.

1shooner 3y ago
Of course people are going to complain about content they don't want. That's the product. Twitter changed their product to deliver different content, so its audience has changed. Calling it 'The Problem' like climate change or the national debt gives it too much power. Just use something else. People use group chats for real relationships now anyway.
- dools 3y ago
  FYI a government can’t borrow a currency it issues, there is no national debt (or all money is debt).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
screenoridesagb 3y ago
[dead]
jrflowers 3y ago
[flagged]
- celdon25 3y ago
  Stop with the straw men. That has nothing to do with the backstory of why he bought Twitter.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - celdon25 3y ago
      You sound mad. Get some air.
      - jrflowers 3y ago
        [flagged]
        oittaa 3y ago
        How do I block low iq trolls like jrflowrs on this platform? I tried to search the FAQ but couldn't find anything.
wpietri 3y ago
There is no "true neutral" when it comes to moderation. There are a million examples, but the most obvious are of the form "you can have group X or people who hate group X and are dedicated to driving them off the platform". Somebody's not going to have "free speech" in that case. And even if you go for what most "true neutral" advocates want, which is a lack of rules, you'll quickly find that quite a lot of people don't want to hang out at the place that's filled with Nazis or scam artists or spammers or whatever. So in practice you have to make choices, or you'll end up running the new 4chan and being sad about your life. As happened to the guy who ran the old 4chan: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/4chans-overlord-christopher-poole-reveals-why-he-walked-away-93894/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/4chans...
- haberman 3y ago
  True neutral means moderating consistently, judging behavior without regard to identity. The ideal, platonic version of this would be that moderators only see an "identity scrambled" version of each tweet/post when they make their moderation decision. Like a screen that blinds orchestra musicians when they audition, the human would see a statement like "I hate New Yorkers" and not know if the original message said "I hate New Yorkers" or "I hate Floridians." So they would have to make a decision based on the general principle of whether a statement of this form is allowable. Anywhere you want to draw the line is fine with me, as long as you draw it consistently.
  - wpietri 3y ago
    That sounds like a very personal definition of "true neutral". And also an unworkable one. Take the use of reclaimed slurs, for example. When used against the discriminated group by a dominant group, their intention is often to cause harm. When used within the group, the intention is to reappropriate the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation Similarly, harassers will use terms in ways that are plausibly read different ways depending on who they're talking to. So something that might sound innocuous or just odd when directed at me will be correctly read as a racist attack when directed at somebody else. And that's not even counting when they'll just come up with new terms so they can be awful in ways that are novel enough that automated filters or out-of-date moderators won't catch. E.g.: https://www.vice.com/en/article/bv88a5/white-supremacists-have-a-disgusting-new-code-for-the-n-word-after-ahmaud-arberys-death https://www.vice.com/en/article/bv88a5/white-supremacists-ha... In short, because there's a great deal of identity-based hate in the world, identity-blind moderation ends up being an aid to the identity haters out there.
hackernewds 3y ago
truly neutral = post anything? there exist such platforms and they're cesspools because human nature

1shooner 3y ago

Of course people are going to complain about content they don't want. That's the product. Twitter changed their product to deliver different content, so its audience has changed. Calling it 'The Problem' like climate change or the national debt gives it too much power. Just use something else. People use group chats for real relationships now anyway.

dools 3y ago
FYI a government can’t borrow a currency it issues, there is no national debt (or all money is debt).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

screenoridesagb 3y ago

[dead]

jrflowers 3y ago

[flagged]

celdon25 3y ago
Stop with the straw men. That has nothing to do with the backstory of why he bought Twitter.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jrflowers 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - celdon25 3y ago
    You sound mad. Get some air.
    - jrflowers 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - oittaa 3y ago
        How do I block low iq trolls like jrflowrs on this platform? I tried to search the FAQ but couldn't find anything.

wpietri 3y ago

There is no "true neutral" when it comes to moderation. There are a million examples, but the most obvious are of the form "you can have group X or people who hate group X and are dedicated to driving them off the platform". Somebody's not going to have "free speech" in that case. And even if you go for what most "true neutral" advocates want, which is a lack of rules, you'll quickly find that quite a lot of people don't want to hang out at the place that's filled with Nazis or scam artists or spammers or whatever. So in practice you have to make choices, or you'll end up running the new 4chan and being sad about your life. As happened to the guy who ran the old 4chan: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/4chans-overlord-christopher-poole-reveals-why-he-walked-away-93894/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/4chans...

haberman 3y ago
True neutral means moderating consistently, judging behavior without regard to identity. The ideal, platonic version of this would be that moderators only see an "identity scrambled" version of each tweet/post when they make their moderation decision. Like a screen that blinds orchestra musicians when they audition, the human would see a statement like "I hate New Yorkers" and not know if the original message said "I hate New Yorkers" or "I hate Floridians." So they would have to make a decision based on the general principle of whether a statement of this form is allowable. Anywhere you want to draw the line is fine with me, as long as you draw it consistently.
- wpietri 3y ago
  That sounds like a very personal definition of "true neutral". And also an unworkable one. Take the use of reclaimed slurs, for example. When used against the discriminated group by a dominant group, their intention is often to cause harm. When used within the group, the intention is to reappropriate the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation Similarly, harassers will use terms in ways that are plausibly read different ways depending on who they're talking to. So something that might sound innocuous or just odd when directed at me will be correctly read as a racist attack when directed at somebody else. And that's not even counting when they'll just come up with new terms so they can be awful in ways that are novel enough that automated filters or out-of-date moderators won't catch. E.g.: https://www.vice.com/en/article/bv88a5/white-supremacists-have-a-disgusting-new-code-for-the-n-word-after-ahmaud-arberys-death https://www.vice.com/en/article/bv88a5/white-supremacists-ha... In short, because there's a great deal of identity-based hate in the world, identity-blind moderation ends up being an aid to the identity haters out there.

hackernewds 3y ago

truly neutral = post anything? there exist such platforms and they're cesspools because human nature