4 ms·

Now, with housing prices going through the roof, how many would-be founders actually have a garage or basement in which to tinker?

ghaff 3y ago
Many people who don't live close into one of the handful of favored metros.
- GuB-42 3y ago
  If the goal is to have cheap, dedicated space where you can build stuff, it probably makes a lot more sense to buy an old but sizable house, with land, in a remote place. These are cheaper than garages, and no one will be there to complain about the noise, or how bad your activity looks to the neighborhood. The cost of living tends to be cheaper than in metro areas too. There are drawbacks too, but it is not like you are going to commute, so one of the biggest one is out. For internet and utilities, some remote places are remarkably well served. Now, if you are doing software, you don't need any of that, all you need is a computer and you can do it from your bedroom.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    You don't even need to live in the mountains of Wyoming or wherever. I live about an hour west of Boston and have a 2-car garage and plenty of space for hobbies in a location that is not particularly expensive.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    You need to live, for most of us that means more than whatever hacking we are doing in our garage/shed. If you have independent wealth and no family moving to a cheap area might be a good option. However if you need a job to support yourself where you live must be in range of that job (though many reading this are able to work from home, most of the world cannot). Family means your spouse - where does she/he need to be for work - this limits where you can live just as much (and if both of you have to go to work what jobs both of you can take) . You can force move your kids to a rural area but they will not be happy about losing all their friends (many do this anyway, but it should be a consideration even if you do it to them. Family also means extended family - where does your sister, parents, in-laws live - moving away from them is hard. Likewise everything about family and your kids friends applies to your friends - do you really want to move away from them? There is also safety - the cheap side of town is often cheap for a reason, do you want to wear a bulletproof vest around all the time? So realistically: cannot move to a cheap house on some land.
cdchn 3y ago
Many had hopes for the TechShop / Hackerspace paradigm to help with this, but it appears it didn't end up too viable as a business and Hackerspaces were problematic in their own ways.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Hackerspaces and non-corporate coworking sort of spaces probably suffer from the fact that people want to have a space in a cool/dense place but don't actually have the means/desire to pay for it which is a big part of why they want the space in the first place.
  - burnished 3y ago
    There are some spaces like that in Seattle that seem to be getting on fine, a Makerspace with a monthly fee (appropriate for access to wood and metal shops as well as various printing and cutting options, but too expensive for me when I was working in the restaurant industry) and some tool libraries with work spaces (free, volunteer run) are the ones I'm familiar with. Just wanted to point out that there are probably places to go to get that itch scratched just under a different name - I think my examples actually sort of underline that it isn't exactly a booming industry.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I'm not saying that such spaces don't/can't exist. Just that the market for individuals plopping down cash for desks/workbenches outside of where they live is fairly limited. I know someone who tried running such in London for a number of years and it was apparently always a difficult business. Of course some areas are much cheaper but the demand is less too.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        There is a hacker space near me - but near isn't good enough to join. By the time I get the kids to bed I couldn't even get there and back before my own bedtime. I can go to my basement/garage and work in that time and do something. I have a nice shed full of tools, but by the time I get out there (it is only 10 meters from the door, but that means shoes, coat...) I can't really find time to get anything done so I end up with a separate workshop with much less tools, but at least it is easy to get to.
NegativeLatency 3y ago
Currently don't have a garage but I do have a basement
zoeysmithe 3y ago
The actual 'garage startup' is bit of a myth, played up as a rags to riches story. Most startups happen in personal spaces like bedrooms or home offices or rented offices and are often better funded than you might think. Or the 'garage' was just a very temporary thing and mostly for storage/laziness/clutter. Even Woz debunks this: “The garage is a bit of a myth,” Wozniak told Businessweek. “We did no designs there, no breadboarding, no prototyping, no planning of products. We did no manufacturing there.” Today a "garage startup" just really means they're just starting out, self-funding, or under-funded.
- cocoa19 3y ago
  Also, having a garage is to be in a privileged position, not exactly rags. It means you can afford a car (first barrier), you can afford a covered structure to park your car (second barrier), you can afford to use your garage as a hobby space (third barrier). It's somewhat normal for the average American, but not anywhere else in the world.
  - jdsully 3y ago
    The garage was a story of economic mobility for the middle class. It was never aimed at people in abject poverty. There were stories about going from troubled neighborhoods to college as well during the time when America still believed in class mobility. The world of the 1800s was a world of hereditary title. There was never a promise of mobility and this is what made America and its legends different for all its failings. Going back to this world will not improve things for the better.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      > The world of the 1800s was a world of hereditary title what book did you read that in? "titles" never existed in the US. And AFAIK, there weren't any "garage startups" in countries that still had them in the 1800s.
      - buildsjets 3y ago

ghaff 3y ago

Many people who don't live close into one of the handful of favored metros.

GuB-42 3y ago
If the goal is to have cheap, dedicated space where you can build stuff, it probably makes a lot more sense to buy an old but sizable house, with land, in a remote place. These are cheaper than garages, and no one will be there to complain about the noise, or how bad your activity looks to the neighborhood. The cost of living tends to be cheaper than in metro areas too. There are drawbacks too, but it is not like you are going to commute, so one of the biggest one is out. For internet and utilities, some remote places are remarkably well served. Now, if you are doing software, you don't need any of that, all you need is a computer and you can do it from your bedroom.
- ghaff 3y ago
  You don't even need to live in the mountains of Wyoming or wherever. I live about an hour west of Boston and have a 2-car garage and plenty of space for hobbies in a location that is not particularly expensive.
- bluGill 3y ago
  You need to live, for most of us that means more than whatever hacking we are doing in our garage/shed. If you have independent wealth and no family moving to a cheap area might be a good option. However if you need a job to support yourself where you live must be in range of that job (though many reading this are able to work from home, most of the world cannot). Family means your spouse - where does she/he need to be for work - this limits where you can live just as much (and if both of you have to go to work what jobs both of you can take) . You can force move your kids to a rural area but they will not be happy about losing all their friends (many do this anyway, but it should be a consideration even if you do it to them. Family also means extended family - where does your sister, parents, in-laws live - moving away from them is hard. Likewise everything about family and your kids friends applies to your friends - do you really want to move away from them? There is also safety - the cheap side of town is often cheap for a reason, do you want to wear a bulletproof vest around all the time? So realistically: cannot move to a cheap house on some land.

cdchn 3y ago

Many had hopes for the TechShop / Hackerspace paradigm to help with this, but it appears it didn't end up too viable as a business and Hackerspaces were problematic in their own ways.

ghaff 3y ago
Hackerspaces and non-corporate coworking sort of spaces probably suffer from the fact that people want to have a space in a cool/dense place but don't actually have the means/desire to pay for it which is a big part of why they want the space in the first place.
- burnished 3y ago
  There are some spaces like that in Seattle that seem to be getting on fine, a Makerspace with a monthly fee (appropriate for access to wood and metal shops as well as various printing and cutting options, but too expensive for me when I was working in the restaurant industry) and some tool libraries with work spaces (free, volunteer run) are the ones I'm familiar with. Just wanted to point out that there are probably places to go to get that itch scratched just under a different name - I think my examples actually sort of underline that it isn't exactly a booming industry.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I'm not saying that such spaces don't/can't exist. Just that the market for individuals plopping down cash for desks/workbenches outside of where they live is fairly limited. I know someone who tried running such in London for a number of years and it was apparently always a difficult business. Of course some areas are much cheaper but the demand is less too.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      There is a hacker space near me - but near isn't good enough to join. By the time I get the kids to bed I couldn't even get there and back before my own bedtime. I can go to my basement/garage and work in that time and do something. I have a nice shed full of tools, but by the time I get out there (it is only 10 meters from the door, but that means shoes, coat...) I can't really find time to get anything done so I end up with a separate workshop with much less tools, but at least it is easy to get to.

NegativeLatency 3y ago

Currently don't have a garage but I do have a basement

zoeysmithe 3y ago

The actual 'garage startup' is bit of a myth, played up as a rags to riches story. Most startups happen in personal spaces like bedrooms or home offices or rented offices and are often better funded than you might think. Or the 'garage' was just a very temporary thing and mostly for storage/laziness/clutter. Even Woz debunks this: “The garage is a bit of a myth,” Wozniak told Businessweek. “We did no designs there, no breadboarding, no prototyping, no planning of products. We did no manufacturing there.” Today a "garage startup" just really means they're just starting out, self-funding, or under-funded.

cocoa19 3y ago
Also, having a garage is to be in a privileged position, not exactly rags. It means you can afford a car (first barrier), you can afford a covered structure to park your car (second barrier), you can afford to use your garage as a hobby space (third barrier). It's somewhat normal for the average American, but not anywhere else in the world.
- jdsully 3y ago
  The garage was a story of economic mobility for the middle class. It was never aimed at people in abject poverty. There were stories about going from troubled neighborhoods to college as well during the time when America still believed in class mobility. The world of the 1800s was a world of hereditary title. There was never a promise of mobility and this is what made America and its legends different for all its failings. Going back to this world will not improve things for the better.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    > The world of the 1800s was a world of hereditary title what book did you read that in? "titles" never existed in the US. And AFAIK, there weren't any "garage startups" in countries that still had them in the 1800s.
    - buildsjets 3y ago