3 ms·

is it even true that most software engineers are white and male? We're discarding indian and chinese engineers?

pphysch 3y ago
In a recent US job opening for entry level SWE, over 80% of applicants had CS/IT degrees from the Indian subcontinent. /anecdote
prepend 3y ago
My experience over about 30 years is that 90% of engineers I’ve seen, including applicants, are male and 60% are Asian. I’d estimate I’ve encountered about 5,000 engineers. I wasn’t tallying so this includes whatever bias I have as a North American tech worker. But most engineers are not white as far as I’ve experienced.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
You don't even have to guess, BLS exposes this data to the public, search for "software developer": https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
- gregw134 3y ago
  Interesting, it says 36% of software developers are Asian but only 9% of web developers.
- janalsncm 3y ago
  That table gives “or” statistics. You can get the percent males (80%) and the percent whites (55%) but you can’t get the percentage of white males. In fact given that 45% are not white, if only 6% of software developers are white women that would put white men in the minority.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Great point! In addition, race and ethnicity are different dimensions, so with 6% of developers as Hispanic/Latino, if you're interested in the white non-Hispanic population, that's probably around 52% given about half of Hispanics identify as white.
- cc81 3y ago
  That is the US only though
wtepplexisted 3y ago
In which country? It's true in France, it's possibly not true in the US, it's definitely not true in China.
BurningFrog 3y ago
Certainly not in my Silicon Valley teams. I'd say maybe 40% white (half of which are immigrants) and 80% male. More diverse than any leftist activist group I've seen.
- s3p 3y ago
  Interesting tidbit, but was the political snark at the end really necessary?
  - BurningFrog 3y ago
    Not much is necessary, but it felt on topic because it's arguing against leftist fantasies that SW engineers are all straight white males.
    - danlugo92 3y ago
      One thing's for sure though, nobody in tech really cares about your race or sexual orientation, they care about your results. Sure there might be some bias against/for some groups, but everyone knows there's genuses in India and white caucasian flops so they give everyone equal opportunity. Only exception is for like legal reasons it might be easier to hire some French random low-tier programming over a Russian/Irani genius but that's due to sanctions, but if those same Russian/Irani guys held a western european passport they would gladly just hire them outright. Source: Venezuelan (sanctions) who is also a holder of a European passport (all sorts of doors just open just because I hold this 2nd nationality out of sheer luck, and you know Venezuelans aren't extremist either).
      - dingclancy 3y ago
        If your first sentence is true, pretty sure we will not be having a Gemini this woke. If we care about the results, and the model showed an Asian and Black Nazi, then we know it is not really about the results.
      - morgtheborg 3y ago
iteratethis 3y ago
Those are "white-adjacent". They're the glitch in the woke matrix. They're minorities, non-white, yet they perform. Outperform even. This suggests that merit works no matter your background which breaks identity politics. Hence, successful minorities project "whiteness". This includes awful behavior like punctuality and rationalism.

In a recent US job opening for entry level SWE, over 80% of applicants had CS/IT degrees from the Indian subcontinent. /anecdote

prepend 3y ago

My experience over about 30 years is that 90% of engineers I’ve seen, including applicants, are male and 60% are Asian. I’d estimate I’ve encountered about 5,000 engineers. I wasn’t tallying so this includes whatever bias I have as a North American tech worker. But most engineers are not white as far as I’ve experienced.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago

You don't even have to guess, BLS exposes this data to the public, search for "software developer": https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm

gregw134 3y ago
Interesting, it says 36% of software developers are Asian but only 9% of web developers.
janalsncm 3y ago
That table gives “or” statistics. You can get the percent males (80%) and the percent whites (55%) but you can’t get the percentage of white males. In fact given that 45% are not white, if only 6% of software developers are white women that would put white men in the minority.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Great point! In addition, race and ethnicity are different dimensions, so with 6% of developers as Hispanic/Latino, if you're interested in the white non-Hispanic population, that's probably around 52% given about half of Hispanics identify as white.
cc81 3y ago
That is the US only though

wtepplexisted 3y ago

In which country? It's true in France, it's possibly not true in the US, it's definitely not true in China.

BurningFrog 3y ago

Certainly not in my Silicon Valley teams. I'd say maybe 40% white (half of which are immigrants) and 80% male. More diverse than any leftist activist group I've seen.

s3p 3y ago
Interesting tidbit, but was the political snark at the end really necessary?
- BurningFrog 3y ago
  Not much is necessary, but it felt on topic because it's arguing against leftist fantasies that SW engineers are all straight white males.
  - danlugo92 3y ago
    One thing's for sure though, nobody in tech really cares about your race or sexual orientation, they care about your results. Sure there might be some bias against/for some groups, but everyone knows there's genuses in India and white caucasian flops so they give everyone equal opportunity. Only exception is for like legal reasons it might be easier to hire some French random low-tier programming over a Russian/Irani genius but that's due to sanctions, but if those same Russian/Irani guys held a western european passport they would gladly just hire them outright. Source: Venezuelan (sanctions) who is also a holder of a European passport (all sorts of doors just open just because I hold this 2nd nationality out of sheer luck, and you know Venezuelans aren't extremist either).
    - dingclancy 3y ago
      If your first sentence is true, pretty sure we will not be having a Gemini this woke. If we care about the results, and the model showed an Asian and Black Nazi, then we know it is not really about the results.
    - morgtheborg 3y ago

iteratethis 3y ago

Those are "white-adjacent". They're the glitch in the woke matrix. They're minorities, non-white, yet they perform. Outperform even. This suggests that merit works no matter your background which breaks identity politics. Hence, successful minorities project "whiteness". This includes awful behavior like punctuality and rationalism.