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My only hang up with standardized testing is that it isn't accessible but not in the ways people might think. When I was in high school, I saw a good number of

My only hang up with standardized testing is that it isn't accessible but not in the ways people might think. When I was in high school, I saw a good number of people who could not travel to a testing center. The closest testing center to my high school was the next city and with no public transport and a variety of family circumstances they couldn't take the test. Test also cost money and you could find yourself in the middle class trap where you are too rich to get a waiver but too broke to afford the test.

hef19898 3y ago
Ideally, said tests are part of the normal tests done in the last year of highschool, right? Shit, having to travel and pay for another test before you can go to college is borderline dystopian...
- lapcat 3y ago
  Way back in the day, I remember having to travel to take the SAT. In fact, I got a speeding ticket on the way to the test! Naturally, that didn't help my score.
- btilly 3y ago
  No. They are done in specific locations, administered by the testing organization. They do a lot to try to avoid cheating, limit memorizing answers, and so on. There is a conflict of interest with actually trusting the school whose reputation depends on how well their students do. Over the years, I've run into quite a few cheating scandals with other tests where teachers tried to improve scores. Because of that, I think that their precautions are very reasonable.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Many high schools do force every junior to take the SAT in school. Mine did. We all got to skip class for the day and took it in the gym.
    - neuronerdgirl 3y ago
      Thats the PSAT and is not used for any college admissions that I'm aware of
      - HDThoreaun 3y ago
        This was the only time I took the SAT and I used it for my college admissions.
      - gnicholas 3y ago
        Actually, a number of states require students to the SAT. [1] This has an interesting effect on the average SAT scores, since the pool of students who choose to take the SAT tend to have somewhat higher testing ability than the students who would not have chosen to take it (but end up taking it due to state mandates). 1: https://blog.prepscholar.com/which-states-require-the-sat https://blog.prepscholar.com/which-states-require-the-sat
- Scubabear68 3y ago
  I know the PSAT and SAT can be taken multiple times, and often starts with PSAT as a sophomore. Very common to take SAT as a junior, and then again as a senior if you weren’t happy with your junior score. Have not heard of traveling outside your district for SAT’s, I’m not sure why that would happen.
- tekla 3y ago
  No? We took it in the school. Hell I took the SAT in the 6th Grade and I also took in the school
ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
Many schools offer the SAT, but I'd agree it likely just should be all. >Test also cost money and you could find yourself in the middle class trap where you are too rich to get a waiver but too broke to afford the test. This test in particular is only $60 even if not subsidized, so it's hard to believe anyone who doesn't qualify can't scrounge up enough for at least the one attempt. However this is a real issue with financial aid as a whole, just 10-20k more a year can have a negative impact on what scholarships/financial aid you can receive, and that can easily end up at over six figures of 'lost' aid.
- throwaway24124 3y ago
  $60 + lost income for a student who works outside school hours and also has to take the test outside school hours + transportation which could be over an hour in rural areas and you can see how this could quickly add up, especially for a teenager who may be smart but may not see the proper cost/benefit of skipping the SAT
  - slily 3y ago
    You are looking for corner cases within corner cases at this point. I know it's uncool to assign the responsibility of children to their parents these days... but if you subscribe to the idea that every system in place has to cater to every possible living situation, you'll just end up with one that doesn't work well for anyone, as evidenced by this post.
  - redeeman 3y ago
    and if they know how it is, they probably are able to make it happen by planning for it over the course of a year. honestly, im not sure i would ever wish to hire someone who couldnt make this happen
  - ramblenode 3y ago
    All this seems like a small investment compared to properly preparing for the test. An average student would probably want to study at least 10 hours if they care about their test score. > especially for a teenager who may be smart but may not see the proper cost/benefit of skipping the SAT The SAT is for students who want to attend college. If $60 and a two hour round trip is going to tilt the scale on whether you spend 4 years in college, then from the college's point of view, you may not be the type of applicant they are looking for.
throwaway24124 3y ago
Absolutely agree. If these tests are not offered in the school during normal school hours, students should receive compensation for taking the test. It's bonkers to me that students have to pay to take it. Travel should also be provided if the test cannot be offered in the student's school. I think that would be a much fairer way to close the equity gap for standardized testing, rather than remove one of the few ways a student from a low-income background can prove their academic worth.
legitster 3y ago
I think this trap is rarer than you would think. I qualified for Pell Grant but still had no problem arranging transport to testing. I can think of all of my friends who couldn't be assed to go to the test or ask for voucher, but I couldn't imagine them being academically successful in college anyway.
- tekno45 3y ago
  "i was poor, but nobody is THAT poor" is a bad argument.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Not at all. You can’t design the standard system used for everyone around the needs of people in extreme circumstances. In the US, 80% of even poor households have access to a car. Likewise, the $55 one-time registration fee for the SAT is not unaffordable for the vast majority of poor people. The percentage of even poor families for whom these are the barriers to taking standardized tests is small enough where you can just have the regular system and come up with special case accommodations for kids who are truly desperate.
    - tekno45 3y ago
      "Well a lot of people can afford it so its fine" is a bad argument.
P_I_Staker 3y ago
I don't think these tests are unaffordable to middle class people
- bumby 3y ago
  Why did you constrain it to “middle class people”?
  - ejb999 3y ago
    because the post s/he is responding too specially mentions the middle class getting squeezed.
    - bumby 3y ago
      Got it. Thanks for clarifying, I think I lost the thread
    - P_I_Staker 3y ago
      LMAO, this is so bizarre. The biases on this site and the weird attention you get for criticizing them. I wouldn't be surprised if the mods get involved.
ryathal 3y ago
My state currently uses the SAT as it's high school standardized test, I believe for Juniors. Everyone gets at least one shot at it then.
- BadHumans 3y ago
  I haven't remained up to date with how testing is handled now since I'm an old fart but before the test was not given during school hours. If it is now then wonderful.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    When I was a youngster we got the PSAT for "free" in Junior year, but the SAT we had to schedule and take ourselves. Then again, back then there was no essay part for the SAT, so lol.
graeme 3y ago
All of the tests have fee waivers: https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/registration/fee-waivers https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/registration/fee-waive... The alternative to testing is looking at resumes and various resume-boosting extra-curriculars are substantially more inaccessible to those without means. Merely identifying some edge cases in the current method doesn't make a good argument.
- BadHumans 3y ago
  I specifically mentioned fee waivers and ignoring edge cases doesn't make the current method good. But I'm not making a large case about why standardized testing is bad. Like I said, these are my only hang ups. I'm not trying to put you out of business.
  - graeme 3y ago
    Ah my mistake, didn't read your final line properly.
- tcmart14 3y ago
  I think my only problem with the current standardized tests is when a standardized test from a private company is required for a public school. Harvard can require whatever it wants. But I feel like to get into the state university, it should be a standardized test ran by the public (state, federal? Don't really have a preference).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nottorp 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalaureate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalaureate This is the normal way to do it. One state administered batch of exams. Unique national questions. Everyone takes it in their own school. Private school students still do the same state test. Universities tend to require a minimum overall grade and a minimum grade on the exam closest to what they teach. But I suppose it would be communism if the federal government did it.

hef19898 3y ago

Ideally, said tests are part of the normal tests done in the last year of highschool, right? Shit, having to travel and pay for another test before you can go to college is borderline dystopian...

lapcat 3y ago
Way back in the day, I remember having to travel to take the SAT. In fact, I got a speeding ticket on the way to the test! Naturally, that didn't help my score.
btilly 3y ago
No. They are done in specific locations, administered by the testing organization. They do a lot to try to avoid cheating, limit memorizing answers, and so on. There is a conflict of interest with actually trusting the school whose reputation depends on how well their students do. Over the years, I've run into quite a few cheating scandals with other tests where teachers tried to improve scores. Because of that, I think that their precautions are very reasonable.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Many high schools do force every junior to take the SAT in school. Mine did. We all got to skip class for the day and took it in the gym.
  - neuronerdgirl 3y ago
    Thats the PSAT and is not used for any college admissions that I'm aware of
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      This was the only time I took the SAT and I used it for my college admissions.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      Actually, a number of states require students to the SAT. [1] This has an interesting effect on the average SAT scores, since the pool of students who choose to take the SAT tend to have somewhat higher testing ability than the students who would not have chosen to take it (but end up taking it due to state mandates). 1: https://blog.prepscholar.com/which-states-require-the-sat https://blog.prepscholar.com/which-states-require-the-sat
Scubabear68 3y ago
I know the PSAT and SAT can be taken multiple times, and often starts with PSAT as a sophomore. Very common to take SAT as a junior, and then again as a senior if you weren’t happy with your junior score. Have not heard of traveling outside your district for SAT’s, I’m not sure why that would happen.
tekla 3y ago
No? We took it in the school. Hell I took the SAT in the 6th Grade and I also took in the school

ApolloFortyNine 3y ago

Many schools offer the SAT, but I'd agree it likely just should be all. >Test also cost money and you could find yourself in the middle class trap where you are too rich to get a waiver but too broke to afford the test. This test in particular is only $60 even if not subsidized, so it's hard to believe anyone who doesn't qualify can't scrounge up enough for at least the one attempt. However this is a real issue with financial aid as a whole, just 10-20k more a year can have a negative impact on what scholarships/financial aid you can receive, and that can easily end up at over six figures of 'lost' aid.

throwaway24124 3y ago
$60 + lost income for a student who works outside school hours and also has to take the test outside school hours + transportation which could be over an hour in rural areas and you can see how this could quickly add up, especially for a teenager who may be smart but may not see the proper cost/benefit of skipping the SAT
- slily 3y ago
  You are looking for corner cases within corner cases at this point. I know it's uncool to assign the responsibility of children to their parents these days... but if you subscribe to the idea that every system in place has to cater to every possible living situation, you'll just end up with one that doesn't work well for anyone, as evidenced by this post.
- redeeman 3y ago
  and if they know how it is, they probably are able to make it happen by planning for it over the course of a year. honestly, im not sure i would ever wish to hire someone who couldnt make this happen
- ramblenode 3y ago
  All this seems like a small investment compared to properly preparing for the test. An average student would probably want to study at least 10 hours if they care about their test score. > especially for a teenager who may be smart but may not see the proper cost/benefit of skipping the SAT The SAT is for students who want to attend college. If $60 and a two hour round trip is going to tilt the scale on whether you spend 4 years in college, then from the college's point of view, you may not be the type of applicant they are looking for.

throwaway24124 3y ago

Absolutely agree. If these tests are not offered in the school during normal school hours, students should receive compensation for taking the test. It's bonkers to me that students have to pay to take it. Travel should also be provided if the test cannot be offered in the student's school. I think that would be a much fairer way to close the equity gap for standardized testing, rather than remove one of the few ways a student from a low-income background can prove their academic worth.

legitster 3y ago

I think this trap is rarer than you would think. I qualified for Pell Grant but still had no problem arranging transport to testing. I can think of all of my friends who couldn't be assed to go to the test or ask for voucher, but I couldn't imagine them being academically successful in college anyway.

tekno45 3y ago
"i was poor, but nobody is THAT poor" is a bad argument.
- rayiner 3y ago
  Not at all. You can’t design the standard system used for everyone around the needs of people in extreme circumstances. In the US, 80% of even poor households have access to a car. Likewise, the $55 one-time registration fee for the SAT is not unaffordable for the vast majority of poor people. The percentage of even poor families for whom these are the barriers to taking standardized tests is small enough where you can just have the regular system and come up with special case accommodations for kids who are truly desperate.
  - tekno45 3y ago
    "Well a lot of people can afford it so its fine" is a bad argument.

P_I_Staker 3y ago

I don't think these tests are unaffordable to middle class people

bumby 3y ago
Why did you constrain it to “middle class people”?
- ejb999 3y ago
  because the post s/he is responding too specially mentions the middle class getting squeezed.
  - bumby 3y ago
    Got it. Thanks for clarifying, I think I lost the thread
  - P_I_Staker 3y ago
    LMAO, this is so bizarre. The biases on this site and the weird attention you get for criticizing them. I wouldn't be surprised if the mods get involved.

ryathal 3y ago

My state currently uses the SAT as it's high school standardized test, I believe for Juniors. Everyone gets at least one shot at it then.

BadHumans 3y ago
I haven't remained up to date with how testing is handled now since I'm an old fart but before the test was not given during school hours. If it is now then wonderful.
- bombcar 3y ago
  When I was a youngster we got the PSAT for "free" in Junior year, but the SAT we had to schedule and take ourselves. Then again, back then there was no essay part for the SAT, so lol.

graeme 3y ago

All of the tests have fee waivers: https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/registration/fee-waivers https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/sat/registration/fee-waive... The alternative to testing is looking at resumes and various resume-boosting extra-curriculars are substantially more inaccessible to those without means. Merely identifying some edge cases in the current method doesn't make a good argument.

BadHumans 3y ago
I specifically mentioned fee waivers and ignoring edge cases doesn't make the current method good. But I'm not making a large case about why standardized testing is bad. Like I said, these are my only hang ups. I'm not trying to put you out of business.
- graeme 3y ago
  Ah my mistake, didn't read your final line properly.
tcmart14 3y ago
I think my only problem with the current standardized tests is when a standardized test from a private company is required for a public school. Harvard can require whatever it wants. But I feel like to get into the state university, it should be a standardized test ran by the public (state, federal? Don't really have a preference).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nottorp 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalaureate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalaureate This is the normal way to do it. One state administered batch of exams. Unique national questions. Everyone takes it in their own school. Private school students still do the same state test. Universities tend to require a minimum overall grade and a minimum grade on the exam closest to what they teach. But I suppose it would be communism if the federal government did it.