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It's really unfortunate that Silicon Valley ended up in an area that's so far left - and to be clear, it'd be just as bad if it was in a far right area too. Pu

It's really unfortunate that Silicon Valley ended up in an area that's so far left - and to be clear, it'd be just as bad if it was in a far right area too. Purple would have been nice, to keep people in check. 'Safety' seems to be actively making AI advances worse.

asadotzler 3y ago
So far left the techies dont even have a labor union. You're a joke.
spencerflem 3y ago
Silicon Valley is not "far left" by any stretch, which implies socialism, redistribution of wealth, etc. This is obvious by inspection. I assume by far left, you mean progressive on social issues, which is not really a leftist thing but the groups are related enough that I'll give you a pass. Silicon valley techies are also not socially progressive. Read this thread or anything published by Paul Graham or any of the AI leaders for proof of that. However most normal city people are. A large enough percent of the country that big companies that want to make money feel the need to appeal to them. Funnily enough, what is a uniquely Silicon Valley political opinion is valuing the progress of AI over everything else
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  Techies are socially progressive as a whole. Yes there are some outliers, and tech leaders probably aren't as far left socially as the ground level workers.
  - spencerflem 3y ago
    I wish :/, I really do I find them in general to not be Republican and all the baggage that entails but the typical techie I meet is less concerned with social issues than the typical city Democrat. If I can speculate wildly, I think it is because tech has this veneer of being an alternative solution to the worlds problems, so a lot of techies believe that advancing of tech is both the most important goal and also politically neutral. And also, now that tech is a uniquely profitable career, the types of people that would be in business majors are now CS majors. Ie. those that are mainly interested in getting as much money as possible for themselves.
    - TulliusCicero 3y ago
      > typical city Democrat I mean, if you compare them to people who live in bigger cities and only the people who belong to the left-er party, then yeah maybe. It's like saying a group isn't socially conservative because they're not as socially conservative as rural Republicans.
      - spencerflem 3y ago
        I think we're just talking about two different things. The implication I got was that techies are more left than normal, and it's the opposite. If I meet someone in my city and they're in tech they tend to be less progressive than the people I meet who are not. The people in this thread are fairly representative of what I see in real life and its not particularly inspiring.
  - KittenInABox 3y ago
    I disagree techies are socially progressive as a whole; there is very minimal, almost no push for labor rights or labor protection even though our group is disproportionately hit with abusing employees under the visa program.
    - TulliusCicero 3y ago
      Labor protections are generally seen as a fiscal issue, rather than a social one. E.g. libertarians would usually be fine with gay rights but against greater labor regulation.
- chasd00 3y ago
  when i think of "far left" i think of an authoritative regime disguised as serving the common good and ready to punish and excommunicate any thought or action deemed contrary to the common good. However, the regime defines "common good" themselves and remains in power indefinitely. In that regard, SV is very "far left". At the extremes far-left and far-right are very similar when you empathize as a regular person on the street.
  - spencerflem 3y ago
    Well, you're wrong.
  - foolofat00k 3y ago
    That's just not what that term means.
    - acheron 3y ago
      It’s not right wing unless they sit on the right side of the National Assembly and support Louis XVI.
    - five_lights 3y ago
      Like it or not, this is how center-right over are using it. We've just created huge silos post trump schism, that even our language is drifting.
- skinpop 3y ago
  indeed they are not really left but neoliberals with a leftist aesthetic, just like most republicans are neoliberals with a conservative aesthetic.
rightbyte 3y ago
SV area far left? I wouldn't even regard the area as left leaning, at all. I looked at Wikipedia and there seem to be no socialist representation. Like, from an European perspective hearing that is ludicrous.
- kristofferR 3y ago
  They are the worst kind of left, the "prudish and constantly offended left", not the "free healthcare and good government" left. I'm glad I live in Norway, where state TV shows boobs and does offensive jokes without anyone really caring.
  - jquery 3y ago
    Prudish? San Francisco? The same city that has outdoor nude carnivals without any kind of age restrictions? If by prudish you mean intolerant of hate speech, sure. But generally few will freak out over some nudity here. College here is free. We also have free healthcare here, as limited as it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_San_Francisco Not sure what you mean by "offensive jokes", that could mean a lot of things...
bergen 3y ago
Put in any historical or political context SV is in no way left. They're hardcore libertarian. Just look at their poster boys, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, and a plethora of others are very oriented towards totalitarianism from the right. Just because they blow their brains out on lsd and ketamine and go on 2 week spiritual retreats doesn't make them leftists. They're billionares that only care about wealth and power, living in segregated communities from the common folk of the area - nothing lefty about that.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are two of the most hated people in tech, so this doesn't seem like a compelling example. Also I don't think Elon Musk and Peter Thiel qualify as "hardcore libertarian." Thiel was a Trump supporter (hardly libertarian at all, let alone hardcore) and Elon has supported Democrats and much government his entire life until the last few years. He's mainly only waded into "culture war" type stuff that I can think of. What sort of policies has Elon argued for that you think are "hardcore libertarian?"
  - bergen 3y ago
    He wanted to replace public transport with a system where you don't have to ride the public transport with the plebs, he want's to colonize mars with the best minds (equal most money for him), he built a tank for urban areas. He promotes free speech even if it incites hate, he likes ayn rand, he implies government programs calling for united solutions is either communism, orwell or basically hitler. He actively promotes the opinion of those that pay above others on X.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      Thank you, truly, I appreciate the effort you put in to list those. It helps me understand more where you're coming from. > He wanted to replace public transport with a system where you don't have to ride the public transport with the plebs I don't think this is any more libertarian than kings and aristocrats of days past were. I know a bunch of people who ride public transit in New York and San Francisco who would readily agree with this, and they are definitely not libertarian. If anything it seems a lot more democratic since he wants it to be available to everyone > he want's to colonize mars with the best minds (equal most money for him) This doesn't seem particularly "libertarian" either, excepting maybe the aspect of it that is highly capitalistic. That point I would grant. But you could easily be socialist and still support the idea of colonizing something with the best minds. > he built a tank for urban areas. I admit I don't know anything about this one > He promotes free speech even if it incites hate This is a social libertarian position, although it's completely disconnected from economic libertarianism. I have a good friend who is a socialist (as in wants to outgrow capitalism such as marx advocated) who supports using the state to suppress capitalist activity/"exploitation", and he also is a free speech absolutist. > he likes ayn rand That's a reasonable point, although I think it's worth noting that there are plenty of hardcore libertarians who hate ayn rand. > he implies government programs calling for united solutions is either communism, orwell or basically hitler. Eh, lots of republicans including Trump do the same thing, and they're not libertarian. Certainly not "hardcore libertarian" > He actively promotes the opinion of those that pay above others on X. This could be a good one, although Google, Meta, Reddit, Youtube, and any other company that runs ads or has "sponsored content" is doing the same thing, so we would have to define all the big tech companies as "hardcore libertarian" to stay consistent. Overall I definitely think this is a hard debate to have because "hardcore libertarian" can mean different things to different people, and there's a perpetual risk of "no true scotsman" fallacy. I've responded above with how I think most people would imagine libertarianism, but depending on when in history you use it, many anarcho-socialists used the label for themselves yet today "libertarian" is a party that supports free market economics and social liberty. But regardless the challenges inherent, I appreciate the exchange
dang 3y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39467056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39467056.
- spencerflem 3y ago
  thank you, the thread looks so much nicer now with interesting technical details at the top
  - dang 3y ago
    I'm delighted that you noticed—it took about 30 interventions to get there.

asadotzler 3y ago

So far left the techies dont even have a labor union. You're a joke.

spencerflem 3y ago

Silicon Valley is not "far left" by any stretch, which implies socialism, redistribution of wealth, etc. This is obvious by inspection. I assume by far left, you mean progressive on social issues, which is not really a leftist thing but the groups are related enough that I'll give you a pass. Silicon valley techies are also not socially progressive. Read this thread or anything published by Paul Graham or any of the AI leaders for proof of that. However most normal city people are. A large enough percent of the country that big companies that want to make money feel the need to appeal to them. Funnily enough, what is a uniquely Silicon Valley political opinion is valuing the progress of AI over everything else

TulliusCicero 3y ago
Techies are socially progressive as a whole. Yes there are some outliers, and tech leaders probably aren't as far left socially as the ground level workers.
- spencerflem 3y ago
  I wish :/, I really do I find them in general to not be Republican and all the baggage that entails but the typical techie I meet is less concerned with social issues than the typical city Democrat. If I can speculate wildly, I think it is because tech has this veneer of being an alternative solution to the worlds problems, so a lot of techies believe that advancing of tech is both the most important goal and also politically neutral. And also, now that tech is a uniquely profitable career, the types of people that would be in business majors are now CS majors. Ie. those that are mainly interested in getting as much money as possible for themselves.
  - TulliusCicero 3y ago
    > typical city Democrat I mean, if you compare them to people who live in bigger cities and only the people who belong to the left-er party, then yeah maybe. It's like saying a group isn't socially conservative because they're not as socially conservative as rural Republicans.
    - spencerflem 3y ago
      I think we're just talking about two different things. The implication I got was that techies are more left than normal, and it's the opposite. If I meet someone in my city and they're in tech they tend to be less progressive than the people I meet who are not. The people in this thread are fairly representative of what I see in real life and its not particularly inspiring.
- KittenInABox 3y ago
  I disagree techies are socially progressive as a whole; there is very minimal, almost no push for labor rights or labor protection even though our group is disproportionately hit with abusing employees under the visa program.
  - TulliusCicero 3y ago
    Labor protections are generally seen as a fiscal issue, rather than a social one. E.g. libertarians would usually be fine with gay rights but against greater labor regulation.
chasd00 3y ago
when i think of "far left" i think of an authoritative regime disguised as serving the common good and ready to punish and excommunicate any thought or action deemed contrary to the common good. However, the regime defines "common good" themselves and remains in power indefinitely. In that regard, SV is very "far left". At the extremes far-left and far-right are very similar when you empathize as a regular person on the street.
- spencerflem 3y ago
  Well, you're wrong.
- foolofat00k 3y ago
  That's just not what that term means.
  - acheron 3y ago
    It’s not right wing unless they sit on the right side of the National Assembly and support Louis XVI.
  - five_lights 3y ago
    Like it or not, this is how center-right over are using it. We've just created huge silos post trump schism, that even our language is drifting.
skinpop 3y ago
indeed they are not really left but neoliberals with a leftist aesthetic, just like most republicans are neoliberals with a conservative aesthetic.

rightbyte 3y ago

SV area far left? I wouldn't even regard the area as left leaning, at all. I looked at Wikipedia and there seem to be no socialist representation. Like, from an European perspective hearing that is ludicrous.

kristofferR 3y ago
They are the worst kind of left, the "prudish and constantly offended left", not the "free healthcare and good government" left. I'm glad I live in Norway, where state TV shows boobs and does offensive jokes without anyone really caring.
- jquery 3y ago
  Prudish? San Francisco? The same city that has outdoor nude carnivals without any kind of age restrictions? If by prudish you mean intolerant of hate speech, sure. But generally few will freak out over some nudity here. College here is free. We also have free healthcare here, as limited as it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_San_Francisco Not sure what you mean by "offensive jokes", that could mean a lot of things...

bergen 3y ago

Put in any historical or political context SV is in no way left. They're hardcore libertarian. Just look at their poster boys, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, and a plethora of others are very oriented towards totalitarianism from the right. Just because they blow their brains out on lsd and ketamine and go on 2 week spiritual retreats doesn't make them leftists. They're billionares that only care about wealth and power, living in segregated communities from the common folk of the area - nothing lefty about that.

freedomben 3y ago
Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are two of the most hated people in tech, so this doesn't seem like a compelling example. Also I don't think Elon Musk and Peter Thiel qualify as "hardcore libertarian." Thiel was a Trump supporter (hardly libertarian at all, let alone hardcore) and Elon has supported Democrats and much government his entire life until the last few years. He's mainly only waded into "culture war" type stuff that I can think of. What sort of policies has Elon argued for that you think are "hardcore libertarian?"
- bergen 3y ago
  He wanted to replace public transport with a system where you don't have to ride the public transport with the plebs, he want's to colonize mars with the best minds (equal most money for him), he built a tank for urban areas. He promotes free speech even if it incites hate, he likes ayn rand, he implies government programs calling for united solutions is either communism, orwell or basically hitler. He actively promotes the opinion of those that pay above others on X.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Thank you, truly, I appreciate the effort you put in to list those. It helps me understand more where you're coming from. > He wanted to replace public transport with a system where you don't have to ride the public transport with the plebs I don't think this is any more libertarian than kings and aristocrats of days past were. I know a bunch of people who ride public transit in New York and San Francisco who would readily agree with this, and they are definitely not libertarian. If anything it seems a lot more democratic since he wants it to be available to everyone > he want's to colonize mars with the best minds (equal most money for him) This doesn't seem particularly "libertarian" either, excepting maybe the aspect of it that is highly capitalistic. That point I would grant. But you could easily be socialist and still support the idea of colonizing something with the best minds. > he built a tank for urban areas. I admit I don't know anything about this one > He promotes free speech even if it incites hate This is a social libertarian position, although it's completely disconnected from economic libertarianism. I have a good friend who is a socialist (as in wants to outgrow capitalism such as marx advocated) who supports using the state to suppress capitalist activity/"exploitation", and he also is a free speech absolutist. > he likes ayn rand That's a reasonable point, although I think it's worth noting that there are plenty of hardcore libertarians who hate ayn rand. > he implies government programs calling for united solutions is either communism, orwell or basically hitler. Eh, lots of republicans including Trump do the same thing, and they're not libertarian. Certainly not "hardcore libertarian" > He actively promotes the opinion of those that pay above others on X. This could be a good one, although Google, Meta, Reddit, Youtube, and any other company that runs ads or has "sponsored content" is doing the same thing, so we would have to define all the big tech companies as "hardcore libertarian" to stay consistent. Overall I definitely think this is a hard debate to have because "hardcore libertarian" can mean different things to different people, and there's a perpetual risk of "no true scotsman" fallacy. I've responded above with how I think most people would imagine libertarianism, but depending on when in history you use it, many anarcho-socialists used the label for themselves yet today "libertarian" is a party that supports free market economics and social liberty. But regardless the challenges inherent, I appreciate the exchange

dang 3y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39467056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39467056.

spencerflem 3y ago
thank you, the thread looks so much nicer now with interesting technical details at the top
- dang 3y ago
  I'm delighted that you noticed—it took about 30 interventions to get there.