4 ms·

I’m confused about this from an economic standpoint. Assume you could put aside an additional $5k while living in these states, wouldn’t that provide a hedge fo

I’m confused about this from an economic standpoint. Assume you could put aside an additional $5k while living in these states, wouldn’t that provide a hedge for the medical needs of your daughter? If needed, you could then travel to a location that provides what you are concerned about. (Not to get hung up on “$5k”, you could substitute any arbitrary number for this cost-benefit judgement) If move opened the possibility for a lucrative and rewarding career wouldn’t the trade off be worth it?

spiderfarmer 3y ago
I'm Dutch, an additional 5k per month would not buy me the feeling of safety I enjoy in the Netherlands. It's not just medical bills. It's also the crime and rape rates. You don't cover death and trauma with insurance.
- jeremiahbuckley 3y ago
  Oh, yeah, can't help you there. I was thinking you were commenting as a person in a blue state worried about a red state political policy. There's blue vs red and then there's Europe vs US. A whole different order of magnitude. I mean all the same economic freedom vs policy concerns trade-offs still apply; but I'm well aware that there is a massive rift in risk comprehension going in both directions. The US is huge and the stuff you see on the news isn't happening where people with nice salaries live (I mean, statistically never, the news is not statistically accurate). But I encountered a funny additional problem with that recently when talking to a European transplant which is: you need a car in the US. The US is huge and cheap and safe but you need a car. If you don't have a car you have to live within a subway system. Then it's not cheap/safe (pick one).
  - spiderfarmer 3y ago
    The lack of thoughtful urban planning is only a small factor. Yes, you have 30% more traffic related deaths, but check all other quality of living related indices and you can only conclude the US is a not even competing. As a result, check your position in the happiness index and wonder if you, as a country, maybe fail your citizens. The only index where the US is leading is GDP, and that’s not a big factor in anyone’s life. You can’t put a price on feeling safe. There are lots of tiktok and yt videos of expats living here who explain just that.
    - tcmart14 3y ago
      Woah now, its been awhile since I looked but I think we also tend to be in the top 5 countries of number of people incarcerated per capita. If that doesn't spell happiness, I don't know what does.
- 1234letshaveatw 3y ago
  I'm a citizen in the US, and conversely I wouldn't move to the Netherlands for any amount of money. Everyone values different things differently I suppose.
  - spiderfarmer 3y ago
    Let me guess, you're somewhat apathetic and the biggest factor is that you hate to see your taxes go to improving the lives of your fellow citizens.
tijtij 3y ago
There was (or still is?) the abortion bounty-hunter law which would allow any private citizen in Texas to sue him if he did what you are proposing. There were also some counties that made it illegal to use their roads to transport someone for the purpose of getting an abortion. In Texas, there is a clear push to criminalize the act of going out of state to get an abortion.
- jeremiahbuckley 3y ago
  Seems like laws against crossing state lines for a medical procedure wouldn't withstand a legal challenge because it involves out-of-state commerce. I'm not a lawyer, but that intervention seems to be aggressive and exactly the place courts/congress would step in. Also, in a scenario where it would does hold up, then CA/NY would start doing the same w/gun stuff. And then FL/TX would respond with something else against CA/NY. So... MAD should prevent states from being too aggressive in this area. Again, my concern is trying to figure out the statistically best way to navigate the various political landscapes and future political possibilities. It just seems too focused on one particular area of risk. I wouldn't categorically close out a good company / good career just because of this risk. This seems like the right place to recommend a hedge.
  - coldpie 3y ago
    Having to participate in an ugly, media-circus-y court fight while also going through a medical procedure/emergency does not sound like a fun time. Unless you have a big appetite for drama and hardship, living in a red state is a really bad idea if you have a chance of becoming pregnant, intentionally or unintentionally.
danpalmer 3y ago
There have been legal challenges against travelling for the procedures we're talking about, there are laws on the books in some of these states that criminalise helping someone to leave the state to receive treatment. There's a reason why many companies who have offices here have offered relocation to employees so that they don't need to contend with these laws if/when they are enforced upon them.

spiderfarmer 3y ago

I'm Dutch, an additional 5k per month would not buy me the feeling of safety I enjoy in the Netherlands. It's not just medical bills. It's also the crime and rape rates. You don't cover death and trauma with insurance.

jeremiahbuckley 3y ago
Oh, yeah, can't help you there. I was thinking you were commenting as a person in a blue state worried about a red state political policy. There's blue vs red and then there's Europe vs US. A whole different order of magnitude. I mean all the same economic freedom vs policy concerns trade-offs still apply; but I'm well aware that there is a massive rift in risk comprehension going in both directions. The US is huge and the stuff you see on the news isn't happening where people with nice salaries live (I mean, statistically never, the news is not statistically accurate). But I encountered a funny additional problem with that recently when talking to a European transplant which is: you need a car in the US. The US is huge and cheap and safe but you need a car. If you don't have a car you have to live within a subway system. Then it's not cheap/safe (pick one).
- spiderfarmer 3y ago
  The lack of thoughtful urban planning is only a small factor. Yes, you have 30% more traffic related deaths, but check all other quality of living related indices and you can only conclude the US is a not even competing. As a result, check your position in the happiness index and wonder if you, as a country, maybe fail your citizens. The only index where the US is leading is GDP, and that’s not a big factor in anyone’s life. You can’t put a price on feeling safe. There are lots of tiktok and yt videos of expats living here who explain just that.
  - tcmart14 3y ago
    Woah now, its been awhile since I looked but I think we also tend to be in the top 5 countries of number of people incarcerated per capita. If that doesn't spell happiness, I don't know what does.
1234letshaveatw 3y ago
I'm a citizen in the US, and conversely I wouldn't move to the Netherlands for any amount of money. Everyone values different things differently I suppose.
- spiderfarmer 3y ago
  Let me guess, you're somewhat apathetic and the biggest factor is that you hate to see your taxes go to improving the lives of your fellow citizens.

tijtij 3y ago

There was (or still is?) the abortion bounty-hunter law which would allow any private citizen in Texas to sue him if he did what you are proposing. There were also some counties that made it illegal to use their roads to transport someone for the purpose of getting an abortion. In Texas, there is a clear push to criminalize the act of going out of state to get an abortion.

jeremiahbuckley 3y ago
Seems like laws against crossing state lines for a medical procedure wouldn't withstand a legal challenge because it involves out-of-state commerce. I'm not a lawyer, but that intervention seems to be aggressive and exactly the place courts/congress would step in. Also, in a scenario where it would does hold up, then CA/NY would start doing the same w/gun stuff. And then FL/TX would respond with something else against CA/NY. So... MAD should prevent states from being too aggressive in this area. Again, my concern is trying to figure out the statistically best way to navigate the various political landscapes and future political possibilities. It just seems too focused on one particular area of risk. I wouldn't categorically close out a good company / good career just because of this risk. This seems like the right place to recommend a hedge.
- coldpie 3y ago
  Having to participate in an ugly, media-circus-y court fight while also going through a medical procedure/emergency does not sound like a fun time. Unless you have a big appetite for drama and hardship, living in a red state is a really bad idea if you have a chance of becoming pregnant, intentionally or unintentionally.

danpalmer 3y ago

There have been legal challenges against travelling for the procedures we're talking about, there are laws on the books in some of these states that criminalise helping someone to leave the state to receive treatment. There's a reason why many companies who have offices here have offered relocation to employees so that they don't need to contend with these laws if/when they are enforced upon them.