4 ms·

"GNU" as in GNU-licensed program. It's not maintained directly by the Free Software Foundation.

mort96 3y ago
You're just making this up aren't you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP#History The application subsequently formed part of the GNU software collection And it's part of the list of "GNU Software" on this page: https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html (And no, that's not a list of all GPL-licensed software, it's a list of GNU software). You're correct that it's not "maintained directly by the FSF", that's not how GNU operates, but I feel that GNU and the FSF has a responsibility for the health of the projects which are part of the GNU project.
- arp242 3y ago
  https://www.gimp.org/develop/ https://www.gimp.org/develop/ says "historically part of the GNU Project". I don't really know the current status or feelings of the GIMP developers, but I know GTK and GNOME have formally disassociated themselves from GNU, but it took them many years to get de-listed on that GNU packages page as Stallman flat-out refused to do so, as he believed that projects are unable to disassociate from GNU. The GnuTLS people have had similar problems. It's still listed on that project page. My point is: that page only reflects what Richard Stallman considers to be part of GNU, not what the developers of that project feel.
  - mort96 3y ago
    Well, https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html says it's currently a part of the GNU project. It does not list GNOME or GTK, FWIW.
    - arp242 3y ago
      Yes, and like I said, it took the GTK/GNOME people years of complaining to get them removed, and the GnuTLS people still aren't removed after more than 10 years of complaining. LWN and other people documented the background on all of this to some extent, and if you're interested I think I have a text file with some link/details somewhere (which I can't seen to find momentarily). So that list is worth bugger all for the purpose of this discussion.
      - mort96 3y ago
        No, it's worth quite a lot in this discussion, actually. It tells us that the GNU project considers GIMP part of the GNU project, regardless of what the GIMP project thinks. That means that the question "why does the GNU project not provide adequate resources to GIMP" is perfectly appropriate.
        arp242 3y ago
        No matter what Stallman thinks, this kind of relationship is a two-way street. GNU or the FSF can't just unilaterally declare it to be "part of GNU" and then unilaterally "provide resources". Not only are they unlikely to do so if the relationship is adversarial, this sort of thing needs cooperation from the other side as well. Either way, this is getting a little tiresome. I have explained there are disputes and complexities about what is or isn't a "GNU project" and I don't quite understand how anyone can deny that these disputes and complexities exist (regardless of how one might feel about them).

You're just making this up aren't you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP#History The application subsequently formed part of the GNU software collection And it's part of the list of "GNU Software" on this page: https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html (And no, that's not a list of all GPL-licensed software, it's a list of GNU software). You're correct that it's not "maintained directly by the FSF", that's not how GNU operates, but I feel that GNU and the FSF has a responsibility for the health of the projects which are part of the GNU project.

arp242 3y ago
https://www.gimp.org/develop/ https://www.gimp.org/develop/ says "historically part of the GNU Project". I don't really know the current status or feelings of the GIMP developers, but I know GTK and GNOME have formally disassociated themselves from GNU, but it took them many years to get de-listed on that GNU packages page as Stallman flat-out refused to do so, as he believed that projects are unable to disassociate from GNU. The GnuTLS people have had similar problems. It's still listed on that project page. My point is: that page only reflects what Richard Stallman considers to be part of GNU, not what the developers of that project feel.
- mort96 3y ago
  Well, https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html says it's currently a part of the GNU project. It does not list GNOME or GTK, FWIW.
  - arp242 3y ago
    Yes, and like I said, it took the GTK/GNOME people years of complaining to get them removed, and the GnuTLS people still aren't removed after more than 10 years of complaining. LWN and other people documented the background on all of this to some extent, and if you're interested I think I have a text file with some link/details somewhere (which I can't seen to find momentarily). So that list is worth bugger all for the purpose of this discussion.
    - mort96 3y ago
      No, it's worth quite a lot in this discussion, actually. It tells us that the GNU project considers GIMP part of the GNU project, regardless of what the GIMP project thinks. That means that the question "why does the GNU project not provide adequate resources to GIMP" is perfectly appropriate.
      - arp242 3y ago
        No matter what Stallman thinks, this kind of relationship is a two-way street. GNU or the FSF can't just unilaterally declare it to be "part of GNU" and then unilaterally "provide resources". Not only are they unlikely to do so if the relationship is adversarial, this sort of thing needs cooperation from the other side as well. Either way, this is getting a little tiresome. I have explained there are disputes and complexities about what is or isn't a "GNU project" and I don't quite understand how anyone can deny that these disputes and complexities exist (regardless of how one might feel about them).