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No one is upset that an algorithm accidentally generated some images, they are upset that Google intentionally designed it to misrepresent reality in the name o
by oceanplexian 3y ago
No one is upset that an algorithm accidentally generated some images, they are upset that Google intentionally designed it to misrepresent reality in the name of Social Justice.
- MadSudaca 3y agoYou mean some people's interpretation of what social justice is.
- Always42 3y agoI am not sure if i should smash the upvote or downvote /s
- mlrtime 3y agoPoe's Law
- aniftythrifrty 3y agoAnd since Oct 7th we've seen those people's masks come completely off.
- meragrin_ 3y agoI'm pretty sure that's what was intended since it was capitalized. > Social Justice.
- Tarragon 3y agoBut also misinterpretations of what the history is. As I write this there's someone laughing at an image of black people in Scotland in the 1800s[1]. Sure, there's a discussion that can be had about a generic request generating an image of a black Nazi. The thing is, to me, complaining about a historically correct example is a good argument for why this kind of thing can be important. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39467206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39467206
- mattzito 3y ago“Misrepresenting reality” is an interesting phrase, considering the nature of what we are discussing - artificially generated imagery. It’s really hard to get these things right: if you don’t attempt to influence the model at all, the nature of the imagery that these systems are being trained on skews towards stereotype, because a lot of our imagery is biased and stereotypical. It seems perfectly reasonable to say that generated imagery should attempt to not lean into stereotypes and show a diverse set of people. In this case it fails because it is not using broader historical and social context and it is not nuanced enough to be flexible about how it obtains the diversity- if you asked it to generate some WW2 American soldiers, you could rightfully include other ethnicities and genders than just white men, but it would have to be specific about their roles, uniforms, etc. (Note: I work at Google, but not on this, and just my opinions)
- reader5000 3y agoHow is "stereotype" different from "statistical reality"? How does Google get to decide that its training dataset -"the entire internet" - does not fit the statistical distribution over phenotypic features that its own racist ideological commitments require?
- ethbr1 3y ago> It seems perfectly reasonable to say that generated imagery should attempt to not lean into stereotypes and show a diverse set of people. When stereotypes clash with historical facts, facts should win. Hallucinating diversity where there was none simply sweeps historical failures under the rug. If it wants to take a situation where diversity is possible and highlight that diversity, fine. But that seems a tall order for LLMs these days, as it's getting into historical comprehension.
- wakawaka28 3y ago>Hallucinating diversity where there was none simply sweeps historical failures under the rug. Failures and successes. You can't get this thing to generate any white people at all, no matter how explicitly or implicitly you ask.
- ermir 3y agoIt's more accurate to say that it's designed to construct an ideal reality rather than represent the actually existing one. This is the root of many of the cultural issues that the West is currently facing. “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it. - Marx
- avereveard 3y agobut the issue here is that it's not a ideal reality, an ideal reality would be fully multicultural and in acceptance of all cultures, here we are presented with a reality where an ethnicity has been singled out and intentionally cancelled, suppressed and underrepresented. you may be arguing for an ideal and fair multicultural representation, but it's not what this sistem is representing.
- gverrilla 3y agoit's impossible to reach an ideal reality immediately, and also out of nowhere: there's this thing called history. Google is just _trying_.
- avereveard 3y agoeven assuming it's a bona fide attempt to reach an ideal state, trying doesn't insulate from criticism. that said, I struggle to see how the targeted cancellation of one specific culture would reconcile as a bona fide attempt at multiculturalism
- aniftythrifrty 3y agoEww
- vidarh 3y agoIf it constructed an ideal reality it'd refuse to draw nazis etc. entirely. It's certainly designed to try to correct for biases, but in doing so sloppily they've managed to make it if anything more racist by falsifying history in ways that e.g. downplays a whole lot of evil by semi-erasing the effects of it from their output. Put another way: Either don't draw nazis, or draw historically accurate nazis. Don't draw nazis (at least not without very explicit prompting - I'm not a fan of outright bans) that erases their systemic racism.
- wazoox 3y agoDepicting Black or Asian or native American people as Nazis is hardly "Social Justice" if you ask me but hey, what do I know :)
- this_user 3y agoThat's not really the point. The point is that Google are so far down the DEI rabbit hole that facts are seen as much less important than satisfying their narrow yet extremist criteria of what reality ought to be even if that means producing something that bears almost no resemblance to what actually was or is. In other words, having diversity everywhere is the prime objective, and if that means you claim that there were Native American Nazis, then that is perfectly fine with these people, because it is more important that your Nazis are diverse than accurately representing what Nazis actually were. In some ways this is the political left's version of "post-truth".
- wazoox 3y agoI know, the heads of Gemini are white men, but they're constantly doing virtue signalling on twitter about systemic racism, inclusivity, etc. Well, what about hiring black women instead of firing them like Timnit Gebru, you fucking hypocrites? These people make me sick.
- tekla 3y agoI thought this is what DEI wanted. Diversity around history.