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> And no, I'm not "just a sufficiently light user". That's pretty dismissive actually. Apologies, certainly not intentional. I've just observed users in the pa

> And no, I'm not "just a sufficiently light user". That's pretty dismissive actually. Apologies, certainly not intentional. I've just observed users in the past who just don't use the product much and as a result have recommendations that are much closer to what I see when I open YouTube in an incognito tab with no history. This is all fair criticism. I do (now) use Shorts, although I resisted for a long time. I actually get very different videos on Shorts to my regular watching, and it found what I wanted pretty quickly. I get that the weight of the app judging by the nav bar is partially shorts and uploading, but home/subs/profile would I think be valuable to you? They certainly are to me (for playlists/downloads access in profile for example). And then many other users do use Shorts and uploading, so this doesn't feel too out of balance. Instagram having a "shop" tab, or WhatsApp having an "updates" tab are similarly of little use to me, but I understand why the products have them and don't begrudge there being users who use the product in different ways.

guitarbill 3y ago
It's just annoying, and by no means unique to YT. Companies forcing changes upon users, it's going to be adversarial - especially for people who do use it a lot. People do watch shorts, of course. I can see it can be a good fit on phones, even if it isn't for me. I can also see not wanting to shaft creators who put effort into shorts. Where it falls down is the heavy-handed, passive-aggressive thing of "ok, we'll hide shorts for 30" (in this view only though). My UI criticism is more that for "normal" videos, you'd use home and subscriptions the most, right? So sandwiching stuff between that just feels like they're trying to make you mis-tap on purpose. Maybe Google engineers don't use bumpy public transport? (Or other one-handed scenarios.) Possibly, this is all a projection of the main worry - especially for paying users: If they are willing to degrade the long-form video experience, or at least show little consideration, what does the future of that look like?

guitarbill 3y ago

It's just annoying, and by no means unique to YT. Companies forcing changes upon users, it's going to be adversarial - especially for people who do use it a lot. People do watch shorts, of course. I can see it can be a good fit on phones, even if it isn't for me. I can also see not wanting to shaft creators who put effort into shorts. Where it falls down is the heavy-handed, passive-aggressive thing of "ok, we'll hide shorts for 30" (in this view only though). My UI criticism is more that for "normal" videos, you'd use home and subscriptions the most, right? So sandwiching stuff between that just feels like they're trying to make you mis-tap on purpose. Maybe Google engineers don't use bumpy public transport? (Or other one-handed scenarios.) Possibly, this is all a projection of the main worry - especially for paying users: If they are willing to degrade the long-form video experience, or at least show little consideration, what does the future of that look like?